Been thinking- fork swap

[CACTUSREID]

i'M ONE OF THE KAMLOOPS GUY'S WITH THE 2011 45 ZOKES.
THE DAMPER ROD,T3 ANODISING IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE JUST UNDER $100 EACH SET TO GET THEM DONE. IF WE CAN STOP THE OIL FOULING, I'M PRETTY SURE IT WILL BE MONEY WELL SPENT. THOSE OF US THAT RIDE AROUND HERE GET IN A TON OF SADDLE TIME PER SEASON. I ALSO HAD MY LOCAL TUNER GEOFF AT GP MOTO INSTALL A SET OF BASE VALVES THAT WERE MADE FOR THESE FORK ISSUES, THAT ARE BEING TALKED ABOUT HERE. THEY ARE A BIG IMPROVMENT AS FAR AS I CAN TELL SO FAR. I'VE ONLY GOT 2 SHORT/COLD RIDES ON THE GASSER SINCE THE VALVES WENT IN, SO I'M KEEPING QUITE UNTIL I HAVE MORE TIME ON THE REWORKED FORKS.
IT'S FUNNY-AS FAR AS I KNOW, WIDEBEAR GOT BANNED FOR STICKING TO HIS GUNS, AND INSISTING THAT THESE FORKS WERE NOT UP TO PREVIOUS GASGAS QUALITY. IT APPEARS AS TIME PASSES, MAYBE HE WAS ON TO SOMETHING EARLY ON THAT SOME PEOPLE JUST DID NOT WANT TO HEAR?
I CANNOT RECALL THE LAST TIME I HAVE HEARD OF GUY'S LOOKING INTO CHANGING A COMPLETE SET OF FORKS ON A MODERN BIKE AS A MEANS OF FIXING PROBLEMS. TO ME THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT THE ORIGINAL BUILD QUALITY OF A PRODUCT.

I THINK I MAY JUST GO AND START A "SAVE WIDEBEAR THREAD"!

 

[GMP]

I've got a whole season on my re-coated uppers and damper rods. Oil comes out clean, and no sign of new wear yet. I've been following that thread on TT. I did get a true T3 coating, its not neccessarily pretty, a dark charcoal/black. The outer surface is rough because the tube surface started rough. I scotchbrited and polished my damaper rods before they went out.

Are you getting the uppers re-coated as well? Check for wear. If I had to guess I'd say that the greyish or lighter fouling in the oil is from the rods. Mine was like this slightly for awhile, and the rods had a polished wear look to them. Then one day Bam!, real dark heavily fouled oil. That was the coating on the uppers. I caught it before the base metal took a beating.

When its all good again go easy on that lower clamp torque. Slippage is not a problem. The outer tube surface being rough contributes to a good fit.

 

[rgranger]

The one thing that Les kept telling me, "DON'T over-tighten the bottom tree!!" Only tighten one or two of the bolts, never all three and keep an eye out for the honda forks

 

[BrentMartell]

Glenn, I understand your point but my open chamber 48mm WP's are awesome. Even my revalved 05 300 KTM were doing an excellent job. I have ridden other open chamber forks that worked quite well. These are just not there yet.

On a side note the forks are working well enough I feel the weakness in the shock. That will be fixed soon with a revalve. The forks are considerably better than stock form and I will be happier once I get a well balanced and set up suspension. I love the motor and turning of this bike. The honda I rode turns as well but it is heavy snarling 4 stroke and not a gg. LOL

 

[webmaster]

i'M ONE OF THE KAMLOOPS GUY'S WITH THE 2011 45 ZOKES.
THE DAMPER ROD,T3 ANODISING IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE JUST UNDER $100 EACH SET TO GET THEM DONE. IF WE CAN STOP THE OIL FOULING, I'M PRETTY SURE IT WILL BE MONEY WELL SPENT. THOSE OF US THAT RIDE AROUND HERE GET IN A TON OF SADDLE TIME PER SEASON. I ALSO HAD MY LOCAL TUNER GEOFF AT GP MOTO INSTALL A SET OF BASE VALVES THAT WERE MADE FOR THESE FORK ISSUES, THAT ARE BEING TALKED ABOUT HERE. THEY ARE A BIG IMPROVMENT AS FAR AS I CAN TELL SO FAR. I'VE ONLY GOT 2 SHORT/COLD RIDES ON THE GASSER SINCE THE VALVES WENT IN, SO I'M KEEPING QUITE UNTIL I HAVE MORE TIME ON THE REWORKED FORKS.
IT'S FUNNY-AS FAR AS I KNOW, WIDEBEAR GOT BANNED FOR STICKING TO HIS GUNS, AND INSISTING THAT THESE FORKS WERE NOT UP TO PREVIOUS GASGAS QUALITY. IT APPEARS AS TIME PASSES, MAYBE HE WAS ON TO SOMETHING EARLY ON THAT SOME PEOPLE JUST DID NOT WANT TO HEAR?
I CANNOT RECALL THE LAST TIME I HAVE HEARD OF GUY'S LOOKING INTO CHANGING A COMPLETE SET OF FORKS ON A MODERN BIKE AS A MEANS OF FIXING PROBLEMS. TO ME THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT THE ORIGINAL BUILD QUALITY OF A PRODUCT.

I THINK I MAY JUST GO AND START A "SAVE WIDEBEAR THREAD"!

Widebear was banned for being overly aggressive by crossing over a line into "name calling" and then personal attacks. When I called him on it - his response was to attack me personally. I exchanged several e-mails with him trying to work things out. But it seems like he always wanted to come out on top, bashing on me further.

I have little time for b.s. and games.

jeff

 

[BrentMartell]

If we can refrain from going down this road again I would appreciate it guys. In this thread I am hoping to either find a solution to these forks or fix my forks to a level that is close to a fork swap. I really don't want to change forks as I don't want to do all the other bs that goes with it and spend the money. I need to go to races and I need to win the those races when I am there. Winning is what can be the trigger for people on the fence to buy or not. I was winning on my KTM and I like this GG better. I want to win, I just need some help : ) In a AA voice, my name is Brent, I am addicted...addicted to winning. ha ha

 

[MrBlah]

under 100 $ a set seems very reasonable

 

[GMP]

Brent,

Your a fast guy and obviously know what works for you. Its just that a lot of fast guys around here seem to like the CC forks. The shock is easy, its a top notch component easily tuned.

 

[CACTUSREID]

point taken- widebear can save himself if he so chooses,or not? GMP- I'm just doing the damper rods this time as my upper tubes still appear good. 'll keep an eye on them in the future. I can't hold a candle to you guys on the internal workings of these forks,I'm only making observations on what i have ridden before this bike. But the new base valves/ or are they called the pistons looked night a day different to what the zokes came with. and my seat of the pants impressions are night a day different ie: much much better overall, but as i said i only have a short time on these forks. I also have to qualify my opinions with the fact that I am firmly in the B rider category, I'm 53 yr's young, I do get to ride a lot as I stated (10-15 hr's per week is not uncommon) from early spring to late fall.

 

[GMP]

You have to clean and dry the inside of the tubes well, and hold them up to a light to see any wear in the clamp area, especially if its light or just starting. Oil can mask the difference in the surface. If they are good still thats great, if your oil cleans up then you know it was the damper rods.

 

[CACTUSREID]

i'M HOPING THAT THE DAMPER RODS/T3 COATING WILL HELP. i REALLY DO LOVE THIS BIKE, AND I'VE KEPT MY LAST 2 EC300'S 4 OR 5 YEARS A PIECE.

IT IS TROUBLEING THAT GASGAS CHOSE THIS GRADE OF A COMPONENT TO PUT ON THEIR BIKES THOUGH. SOMEONE IN MARKETING,MUST HAVE HAD A SAY IN THIS DECISION. FROM WHAT I HAVE READ,THERE ARE OTHER SUPEROIR CHOICES THEY COULD HAVE USED. I'M HOPING THE LITTLE BIT OF TIME AND MONEY I'VE INVESTED WILL GIVE ME A NICE SET OF FORKS THAT WILL LAST AS LONG AS THE REST OF THE BIKE.

 

[BrentMartell]

The showa fork will fit the GG upper. The lower is too tight. What are the thoughts about having the gg lower bored out 1-1.5 mm? That is not a lot of material to bore out to fit the 47mm showa.

 

[GMP]

IMO BAD idea! Look at the clamp closely, note the ridges in the casting. Not a lot of material thickness there. I'd get a GG Sachs clamp and work with that, it would save a lot of trouble dealing with offsets and steering stops, etc.

 

[BrentMartell]

OK, once again thanks. I have access to 08 Honda 450R clamps. We are playing and measuring things now.

Do you know a good resource for the lower clamp? ie besides gofasters.

 

[GMP]

Sorry I don't. Problems with the CR clamps are the offset as I mentioned before, the stem/bearings, and the steering stop setup is likely different, probably uses a tab welded on the lower steering head. Just went through this on a hybrid KX/KLX mini I'm working on, had to add weld to that tab. The GG Sachs clamp may not be the only way or the cheapest, but it will be the cleanest and fastest way with no surprises.

 

[BrentMartell]

The ones we have are 22mm offset. Hoping to look things over a little more closely tonight and then go from there. The whole thing really is not any fun for me actually. I have very little time and resources for digging up make shift stuff and will not spend 700.00 on custom clamps....well until I win the lotto. Then I will! I would probably just build my own bike if I had that kind of money, ha ha.

If this won't work I will likely send the suspension off and see what happens. I need to pull the forks down anyway and see how much wear has occured to the rod etc. I also should go back through it and re-write all the specs.

 

[gassi]

IMO BAD idea! Look at the clamp closely, note the ridges in the casting. Not a lot of material thickness there. I'd get a GG Sachs clamp and work with that, it would save a lot of trouble dealing with offsets and steering stops, etc.

I have a GG sachs lower clamp and a GG marzocchi lower clamp and a both have the same OD...
I'm not sure if there is a several versions of the clamp by another year, but that's what I've got.

Clamp ID's: Sachs 59,3mm. Marzocchi 57mm.

 

[BrentMartell]

Curious: measure the thickness of the clamping surface...ie outside of clamp to inside of clamp. The 2011 lower is billet alum. Not sure if you have cast clamps or not. Just letting you know these are billet.

I do have serveral options I am working off of now. The 2008 Honda's are 22mm offset and can use them with my stem. I can have a lower T made. Well, I think I can. Waiting on word from friend.

 

[gassi]

They are the cast clamps.
Clamps OD is 69mm and the grooves in the clamps outer surface are 2,5mm deep.
So the sachs clamp material thickness is only 2,35mm where the grooves are and elsewhere it's 4,85mm.
Same measurements for the marzocchi clamp: 3,5mm/6mm.

Hope this helps!

 

[BrentMartell]

Interesting the zoke clamps are thicker by 1mm plus. Leads a person to believe 1 mm could be machined out and the strength would be close or equal the sachs clamps.