Been thinking- fork swap
- Thread starter BrentMartell
- Start date
Harry
Member
Hi see this post http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10575
I am fitting 47mm Showas
Harry
I am fitting 47mm Showas
Harry
armyoforange
New member
are they r or x forks stock or already valved what year fork
rgranger
Gold Level Site Supporter
Brent,
I am so glad that you posted about the harsh rebound. I could never have imagined that the rebound would hurt worse than the bound! Granted, I had already bunged up my wrist in a stupid stunt, but I was recovering fine, until I road my 2011 with forks that I had just gotten back from Les (not his fault really). I put them at the specs he suggestioned, rode about 14 miles and was a cripple. I had been playing with the compression during that ride and just kept thinking, @#$damn this hurts! We got back to camp and I tried dialing in a lot of rebount, it was the only thing left, and it smoothed way out. I can deal with it now, and seem to be getting used to it (i also put the softest bumpers in the flexx bars) but still I can feel the forks spazzing out over quick stuff sometimes. I need to get it out to the forest now and see how it does in the roots.
I think that I have rebound 2-4 clicks out from fully closed.
I am so glad that you posted about the harsh rebound. I could never have imagined that the rebound would hurt worse than the bound! Granted, I had already bunged up my wrist in a stupid stunt, but I was recovering fine, until I road my 2011 with forks that I had just gotten back from Les (not his fault really). I put them at the specs he suggestioned, rode about 14 miles and was a cripple. I had been playing with the compression during that ride and just kept thinking, @#$damn this hurts! We got back to camp and I tried dialing in a lot of rebount, it was the only thing left, and it smoothed way out. I can deal with it now, and seem to be getting used to it (i also put the softest bumpers in the flexx bars) but still I can feel the forks spazzing out over quick stuff sometimes. I need to get it out to the forest now and see how it does in the roots.
I think that I have rebound 2-4 clicks out from fully closed.
rgranger
Gold Level Site Supporter
Brent,
Here is a note that I had from Les. Of course this means new wheel, front brake...
Hi Rob,
I said the X or the R, either one will have to be re-worked for purpose. Those 2004's look like the ticket!
The R fork is a good way to go, but the X is just as effective. The R fork has more aluminum components inside ( SLIGHTLY lighter) and has more detailed valving circuits. I stress either will serve you well.
Things to look forward to with this conversion;
Steering stem to bearing fit, sometimes a different bearing will complete the fit, sometimes they just match up.
Get a Honda front wheel/axle/spacers etc. plus the caliper and mount. these rotors are about 20 mm smaller than the GG but prove to be perfectly effective.
There will be a few things to overcome along the way but nothing too involved.
$325 is a good price for those.
Here is a note that I had from Les. Of course this means new wheel, front brake...
Hi Rob,
I said the X or the R, either one will have to be re-worked for purpose. Those 2004's look like the ticket!
The R fork is a good way to go, but the X is just as effective. The R fork has more aluminum components inside ( SLIGHTLY lighter) and has more detailed valving circuits. I stress either will serve you well.
Things to look forward to with this conversion;
Steering stem to bearing fit, sometimes a different bearing will complete the fit, sometimes they just match up.
Get a Honda front wheel/axle/spacers etc. plus the caliper and mount. these rotors are about 20 mm smaller than the GG but prove to be perfectly effective.
There will be a few things to overcome along the way but nothing too involved.
$325 is a good price for those.
BrentMartell
New member
FYI. Base valve reshim, pistons properly drilled out, and blow off valve converted to a more conventional mid valve. The forks felt much better but still harsh and unpredictable at higher speeds. My gut told me it was a rebound issue the entire time but the suspension guys said no. I took my Race Tech WP's and did a little side by side test of the rebound effect. It was simple actually:
Riding the bike I would go full soft to full hard on rebound with very little affect. Off the bike with spring removed and the the outside of the fork unscrewed from the cap full hard to full soft also netted very little affect. I targeted the rebound and experimented until I was somewhat similar in affect to the WP. Even with the significant rebound stack I still have to run it close to full hard. Still need to add more shims.
I believe I am at the point I need to mod the other stacks to have better balance. I am pushing the boundaries of my knowledge now though.
Riding the bike I would go full soft to full hard on rebound with very little affect. Off the bike with spring removed and the the outside of the fork unscrewed from the cap full hard to full soft also netted very little affect. I targeted the rebound and experimented until I was somewhat similar in affect to the WP. Even with the significant rebound stack I still have to run it close to full hard. Still need to add more shims.
I believe I am at the point I need to mod the other stacks to have better balance. I am pushing the boundaries of my knowledge now though.
rgranger
Gold Level Site Supporter
"Riding the bike I would go full soft to full hard on rebound with very little affect."
That was mine when I got my forks back from Les the first time ( I don't know about stock, I knew the springs and such were way off from the factory for my weight, so they went straight to LTR as soon as Halls got the bike). I had zero rebound control, now I have some, but it is near full hard. I wish I knew more about fork theory.
That was mine when I got my forks back from Les the first time ( I don't know about stock, I knew the springs and such were way off from the factory for my weight, so they went straight to LTR as soon as Halls got the bike). I had zero rebound control, now I have some, but it is near full hard. I wish I knew more about fork theory.
BrentMartell
New member
You are not alone. Fortunately ppl feel like the GG and feel it is worth the effort to buy. Unfortunately there are not enough suspension experts that have had worked on them with the 45' and most will not tell you what they are doing to make them work better.
A few of us were not getting the help we needed and said screw it, I'll do it myself. I was forced into it, I didn't want to do it. In many ways I am happy I did because now I know considerably more, which may not be saying much. I generally ride A and AA class, do ok in both for a old guy. So it is very critical I have a suspension that gives me confidence. Right now the forks are very good compared to stock, but they are not great. Great forks is what I want and frankly, demand.
The common theme on this fork seems to be rebound and mid valving issue's. I am not impressed with internal quality components but that is not something I change yet or I would have installed gold valves and been done with it. However, if you feel adventurous take the forks apart and start playing with the rebound stack. IMO- there should be a absolutely huge difference between full hard and full soft on a set of forks. Unfortunately these only have 10-12 click range so the margin is narrower. There still should be a noticeable difference. If I am wrong someone should correct me.
A few of us were not getting the help we needed and said screw it, I'll do it myself. I was forced into it, I didn't want to do it. In many ways I am happy I did because now I know considerably more, which may not be saying much. I generally ride A and AA class, do ok in both for a old guy. So it is very critical I have a suspension that gives me confidence. Right now the forks are very good compared to stock, but they are not great. Great forks is what I want and frankly, demand.
The common theme on this fork seems to be rebound and mid valving issue's. I am not impressed with internal quality components but that is not something I change yet or I would have installed gold valves and been done with it. However, if you feel adventurous take the forks apart and start playing with the rebound stack. IMO- there should be a absolutely huge difference between full hard and full soft on a set of forks. Unfortunately these only have 10-12 click range so the margin is narrower. There still should be a noticeable difference. If I am wrong someone should correct me.
So this is not something that the gold valve or other magic parts from racetech would help?
GMP
Active member
Problem is the piston has so much free bleed it bypasses the effect of the adjuster, thats why it feels the same especially moving the damper rod by hand. Some guys I know have filled the hole with JB Weld so its like a Husky Zoke and started over with the stack. I did my brothers Husky and it ended up with less shims than the GG to feel right.
BrentMartell
New member
Glenn are you refering to the little hole on the piston? Did you just fill this hole and leave all else the same or did you also remove the spring activated blow off. I am not sure if I got the terms right. My forks are not running that blow off valve/spring anymore. My dealer removed it and installed spacers and built a stack. That is the base to which I began my experimenting.
RG- I do not believe there is any US manufactures who have pistons made for the 45. RT does not show a piston. My local suspension guy contacted them as well with no new info for up and coming pistons.
RG- I do not believe there is any US manufactures who have pistons made for the 45. RT does not show a piston. My local suspension guy contacted them as well with no new info for up and coming pistons.
GMP
Active member
Brent,
Yes, the small bleed hole. I left it as I was able to get a decent result for my rock focused setup, but your results may vary. If your still not happy try blocking it. Thats how the Husky forks are, otherwise the same piston setup.
I built a mid valve stack, but use the spring behind the stack so I have some float, around 1.4mm. Works good in rocks that way and keeps the front end up a little more in the bigger stuff. If I rode mostly fast sand I'd tighten it up even more. I know from a couple fast HS races I did this fall it could be stiffer, but I need it tolerable in the real nasty stuff. Maybe your too tight? Easy to go too far with MVs.
Yes, the small bleed hole. I left it as I was able to get a decent result for my rock focused setup, but your results may vary. If your still not happy try blocking it. Thats how the Husky forks are, otherwise the same piston setup.
I built a mid valve stack, but use the spring behind the stack so I have some float, around 1.4mm. Works good in rocks that way and keeps the front end up a little more in the bigger stuff. If I rode mostly fast sand I'd tighten it up even more. I know from a couple fast HS races I did this fall it could be stiffer, but I need it tolerable in the real nasty stuff. Maybe your too tight? Easy to go too far with MVs.
BrentMartell
New member
I have .030 free float if I remember correctly. You could be right though. Man it has been since just after the Texas qualifier I had the forks apart. I just dealt with it and rode the bike. I was more focused on Finland than worrying about forks. They actually worked pretty well. Just not as refined as I would like.
BrentMartell
New member
I would like to know the cost as well. This is exactly what I said the first time I had my forks apart and my oil looked like 5000 mile engine oil. I was nasty. I was told I didn't know what I was talking about. I suspect the rods were not coated and if they were it was gone within the first 100 miles.
I did ride the bike yesterday and had a chance to compare it to a Honda 450R. The Honda soaked up all the big hits and did OK in the rocks. Mine soaked up the rocks and used more of the suspension but did not feel as linear. My bike takes the bigger hits OK but it just feels edgy and unrefined. I think it is time to bring the shock up to the level of the forks at the same moving the forks up a couple of levels. I am pretty sure I will be sending it all to EE and starting over. I know what I want, just not sure of how to get there.
I did ride the bike yesterday and had a chance to compare it to a Honda 450R. The Honda soaked up all the big hits and did OK in the rocks. Mine soaked up the rocks and used more of the suspension but did not feel as linear. My bike takes the bigger hits OK but it just feels edgy and unrefined. I think it is time to bring the shock up to the level of the forks at the same moving the forks up a couple of levels. I am pretty sure I will be sending it all to EE and starting over. I know what I want, just not sure of how to get there.
GMP
Active member
Brent,
There is also the consideration that you are comparing a CC fork with an OC fork. If your a real fast guy hitting stuff hard the CC fork should be better because the oil is kept under pressure and dampning more consistant. Not saying this is the answer but certainly is a factor. If you were keeping the bike perhaps the fork swap would be a better option at your level and speed.
There is also the consideration that you are comparing a CC fork with an OC fork. If your a real fast guy hitting stuff hard the CC fork should be better because the oil is kept under pressure and dampning more consistant. Not saying this is the answer but certainly is a factor. If you were keeping the bike perhaps the fork swap would be a better option at your level and speed.
