Considering a 2010 GG EC300

[Bailey28]

Hey guys,

I got back from a dealer demo ride on a '10 GG EC300. I like the bike and was instantly comfortable on it. The dealer had it set up with Ohlins front and rear so I didn't get to try the Sachs stuff.

Coming off of an '06 KTM 450XC, I am a little concerned about the bottom end response of the 300. The dealer had it set up stock, with the GG pipe and FMF Turbine core II on it. No one there knew exactly what jetting was in it but said it was "stock".

The motor was smooth, but I thought lacked a little bit until it got up closer to the "powerband" When the motor hit it went faster, but wasn't on fire or anything. The low end almost felt like a KDX or something similar. I felt that I would not be able to clear a small table top if it were not in the powerband. I also heard that the 300's had no "hit".

I will primarily use this bike for light MX work, woods, hare scrambles, single track trails, rock gardens, sand track, whoops, and very limited street use, only to pop from trail to trail.

I like a very smooth power delivery, the more seamless and electric in style the better. My 450 is electric to me. I can't stand a MX style 2T delivery, the hit slows me down if that makes any sense. Defining seamlessly electric: moped style delivery.

Did I ride a dud? Truly how electric are the 300 motors? Can I jet or pipe the bike to where I would notice no hit at all? I read that the CCK needle taper does smooth things even more and I even have one sitting around from an old KDX200 project I was working on.

Again, I loved the bike, but wanted to ask here to get a better understanding of what "Low end" meant to you guys. As well, I thought all EC models came with a tail light/brake light/license plate combo. None of the bikes had it and the guy wants extra for it. They had headlights though. I'm sure they were not the DC models.


Any input would be great, I am going Monday to look at getting the bike again.

 

[john01]

Bailey our 2010 EC300 jetting was a little off when we got it. It made it a little slow to respond in the low-mid ranges. We have re-jetted it and haven't even tried the CCK most are running. I can tell you no KDX220 will even come close to running with it. My son is 30 and a pretty fast MX rider and has a ball with it. Several club members have tried it and turn faster laps on it than they do with their own 450F MX bikes. The balance, turning, handling, and power make it pure pleasure on the MX track, in the woods, trails, or just putting around on. Ours has some hit now but it's still very smooth when compaired to our riding buddies 250 2-stroke MX bikes. We did change to 13/50 gearing which feels about perfect to us. I say take the plunge, get yourself a GG 300 and let the fun begin. Good luck and let me know how the second test goes. BTW don't let the smooth power fool you into thinking you're going slow. I almost went over a huge berm at our MX track after jumping off a Husky TC 250 and onto the GG300 LOL! I guess I'm getting old and can't tell just how fast I'm going anymore.

 

[Krieg]

The stock jetting on my '11 XC 300 was way off. I'll bet that's what the issue was with the one you rode.

 

[2whlrcr]

I've got a 2010 300 and a 450 KTM. If you want the same low end torque as the 450, you will be dissapointed.

That said the stock jetting is horrible and you need to rejet for your conditions. Plus I think the jetting is very finicky to get perfect and is more susceptible to atmospheric changes than other two strokes I've had. But I like the soft bottom end. It is much easier to ride on tight technical rocky and rooty trails. And a big plus if it's muddy or I'm tired. But it's just not gonna have the lunge off the bottom that a 450 has. But overall I'm satisfied with performance and it's definitely lighter riding than the 450.

Lots of info here on carb and head mods that are supposed to wake up the performance. Give more power on the bottom through top and conjunction of smoothing the delivery out. I have been tempted, but don't want to spend the extra money. Mine works as it is.

 

[Bailey28]

Great, thanks guys.

So in a bigger nutshell, if you were to compare the low end power of a properly running and jetted 300 with that of other bikes listed here where would you slide it in at?

Ill start the list, feel free to add to it or move the GG around within it:

From weakest to strongest:

1) Honda XR 250 air cooled

2) Yamaha WR 250f

3) KDX200, KDX 220

4) Suzuki RMZ 250f (motocross)

5) Kawaski KLX300 four stroke

5) Suzuki DRZ 400

6) KTM 400 four stroke

7) KTM 450 XC

8) All other 450CC motocross bikes, which would kill my 450XC on low end anyway.

The 450XC is a mid-top motor anyway, however I am never up there. I love to short shift, lug the bike, ride a gear higher, chug and float over obstacles. That is the main reason I was looking at the GG 300 because so many of you all said that this is how you ride a 300. I would say that on a given ride, I would never be over 7,000 rpm on my 450XC. If I rev it at all, the thing becomes a damn time machine! However it is totally smooth up to that point. All stock.

I can't use all of the power the 450 has to offer anyway. How I do use it is coming out of a corner on an MX track lugging 2nd gear, seat bounce a small or medium table 20 feet out from the corner. In this situation, the 450 is just entering the lower midrange, and I still have to fan the clutch to get it to pop over the table. But it will yank hard down there.

I guess what I do know is that at -150cc displacement, the motor will not have the same torque off idle as a 450. I wanted to know if that will limit what I can ride at the track, or if what you guys are saying that I might have to adjust my riding style and keep the rpm's up a bit higher. The GG is about 30lbs. lighter than my 450 full of gas.

I would say that on any given day, a good running KTM RFS motor will make about 45hp on a dyno. With the spark arrestor on mine and 200+ hours on the engine, I would estimate that to be in the 40 hp range. You guys are saying the 300 makes about 50, and the bike weighs about 30lbs lighter. Sounds like a rocketship!

I guess I'll just have to go buy one and see. But I will probably never go over 6,000 rpm anyway.

 

[GMP]

When that bike is jetted crisp and geared down to 13/50 it IS a rocket ship. In fact a lot of the jetting work discussed here is focused on smoothing the low end. You can make the bike anything you want with a few mods, and go too far fairly easy. What position was the map switch in?

It won't have as much raw yank as a 450 MX 4 stroke but you never hear any complaints about the 300s lack of low end, thats for sure.

 

[Bailey28]

Come to think of it, I don't recall what position the map switch was in. I left the dealership kicking myself because during the ride all I could marvel at was the handling and suspension which wooed and distracted my attention away from the map switch. I didn't even look at it.

I've heard that in the rain setting the low end was stronger and it "hit" less. Sunny setting and it was weaker with a stronger hit. If I was misled please set me straight.

When I had my KDX, RB did the carb mod but not the head mod. I also installed a Pro Circuit PlatinumII pipe and did the airbox mods.

I have had the KTM 450 since'08 and it has been a long time since I've ridden a KDX but I remember buying about 10 different needles and constantly pulling the slide out to change between them. I had A tapers, B tapers, C and D tapers. I can say that I recall the A and B single tapers being very smooth which I prefer. I am a true tinkerer and understand needle tapers and diameters fairly well.

All in all, it sounds like a very solid bike. I am sold on the handling, ergonomics, fit, etc. I just wanted to make sure I could add to the bottom end/lower midrange area and, like you said GMP, make it anything I wanted. I noticed that RB has infiltrated you guys as well which is a familiar and good thing. The RB mod alone woke up the KDX well, and that was a 200. I guess I am fixin' to get what I asked for!

 

[HuskyDude]

It won't have as much raw yank as a 450 MX 4 stroke but you never hear any complaints about the 300s lack of low end, that's for sure.

 

[TNT Cycle]

1 All 300's 2t's seem difficult to jet and it can make a huge difference in performance.

2 I think the map switch does more to give the bike stronger mid-hit or stronger top end. Not really changing bottom end at least from my experience. The difference is very noticable also, Ive put it in the low when I didn't want to and thought something was broken because it will make the bike go FLAT. It will really slow the motors ability to rev as fast as in high curve and is very usefull on 300.

3 I don't think GG 300 is a bottom end monster not even as much off idle bottom as KTM 300's Ive ridden, no matter what jetting Ive tried. That being said I think they have the most mid and top end of the 300 bunch. Still enough grunt overall that my brother is impressed at how long it can stay in one gear compared to his 2010 KTM 450 EXC and me too at that. His 450 has massive jetting work and runs really well. Again not as much bottom on 300 but mid and top are damn close.

4 These motors are setup to be super smooth right down to the 2K3 heavy flywheel they come with on newwer bikes. To really get the front end up quickly I always feel it likes just a tap on the clutch lever to build some rev's. Its a good thing to me because after all I forgot to say they rate them over 50horse power so traction is what you need.

Cheers,

Rick

 

[mtothef]

bear in mind i have only about 5 hours into my 2010 300, and that it is jetted slightly fat for break-in, but here's my noob two cents.

i've had a few ball tearers and stump pullers in my past, and i think i was probably slower on all of them than i was on my ktm 200. low end usability is relative. i'd rate my riding ability as a mid-quick b hare scramble guy, who prefers woods and singletrack to whoops and who hasn't even tried to clear a double jump in the past decade.

that said, i notice the main difference between soft and hard maps on the 2010 is how the bike gains revs and hits into the mid range. the bottoms on each map feel pretty similar to me, and while the bike doesn't feel the arm jerking snap off idle that some of the 450 lovers crave, it pulls very cleanly off idle and can be lugged out of some very tight situations far more capably than most bikes i've ridden. it crawls around on slippery and off-camber stuff with more grace than just about anything else, and the front is light enough that it comes up pretty easily (for me at least) even in the soft map.

to me, it doesn't feel like there is a lack of low end. it feels like there is some flywheel at work, and that the bike is amazingly tractable in soft map. linear and smooth would be how i'd describe the power delivery there, but still plenty fun. flip to the hard map, and it pulls into the powerband and roosts and snarls and does all those nice powerbandy two stroke things that i've missed for a few years now. works fine for me. i hear that the real fast riders jet them leaner than i do, and the real real real fast riders feel they run out of revs on top a bit early.

i'm riding tomorrow, and will be playing around with final jetting, but am almost reluctant to lean it out much because it's so much fun to ride as it is right now, and because it has more than enough stomp for the kind of riding i prefer.

 

[Bailey28]

Thanks guys your responses put things into a better perspective. First off, I am not a "fast" guy. I have a "C" on my numberplate after my numbers. I have ridden and owned many two and four stroke bikes and love one bike to do it all.

I can tell you that I will most likely never use the 50 hp the 300 puts out. I can't recall the last time I turned the throttle to it's stop on my 450.

I am competent enough to review what you guys are doing for jetting at what altitude, temperature, and mixture ratio to help me along.

Even before owning the bike from what I've read so far this is what I'm thinking:

LTR powervalve cover
CCK or CCL needle to try out with the appropriate pilot and main jets
FMF Gnarly pipe
RB carb mods
RB head mods
Thinnest base gasket I can find

 

[john01]

Honestly other than jetting you really don't need the other mods. Properly jetted as said the 300 has plenty of power even for an A level rider. If you don't twist the KTM to the stop you won't need to on the GG300 either.

 

[GMP]

Don't do anything but jet it correctly first, maybe gear it down, and ride it awhile. You don't need a high volume PV cover on a 300, and certainly not a Gnarly pipe. Not even sure the traditional Gnarly is available for the '10. You said your a "C" rider? Spend your $$ on suspension setup before the motor.

 

[Bailey28]

OK thanks again, I am off in the morning to get the bike. The only thing I did to the KTM 450 motor was an HT racing powervane intake port stuffer which helped, you guessed it, bottom end power.

I will jet the bike first, that is the cheapest and easiest thing to do. I checked the jetting threads and they recommended the CCK or CCL needle, 42pilot, 178 main.

I live at sea level, 93 octane gas, and plan on using a synthetic 2T oil at 50:1 and fine tune with the air screw as needed. Right now temps are in the 60*F range. From what you guys are saying this should start the bike on the right track and give me more than I want or need.

C is the letter on the plate, I don't think I'm fast however my riding pals do. I can't see them when I am done with a section, so I shut off the bike and wait for them. After 28 years of woods riding I just ride at a pace I feel comfortable at.

A ride report will be posted in that section here when I get it going.

 

[john01]

So you are getting a GasGas 300? If so congrats and I think you are going to have a blast riding it. Good luck and I look forward to your ride report.

 

[Bailey28]

I got the bike in my hot little hands!!!!!!!

Deal went through great, happy with the shop, Atlantic Motosport. Kirt Lynch hooked me up with a good deal.

I got it home and started transferring bark busters and other goodies to it. Ride report to follow this weekend, I can't wait!

 

[husley]

Yeah

Finally got to really ride mine yesterday for the first time..........

LOVE it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[john01]

Awesome husley ! Now once you have it broken in please give a full ride report.