Differences

[gasser]

I complete agree, there is just one issue.

My bike is a 1999, I am not wanting to put $1000's of dollars into a 16 year old bike. I'm not wanting to buy a new bike "right" now either. I am LARGE, while I am still working on losing weight I am currently ringing the neck of the 200 to get up many of the hills we have locally.

!

Gear that bike down. I would suggest 12/48 or 13/52 or better yet 12/50. GasGas 200s put out a lot of power just not a lower revs so you have to gear them lower than they come from the factory. They also rev freely to the moon if jetted correctly so you can still get a decent top speed even when geared quite low.

 

[memphis2857]

KTM no longer makes an EXC you have an XC and a XCW.

300XC = hard hitting,big horsepower, Unstable and nervous feeling

300xcw= much more mellow. The motor is actually quite nice. Still though shit suspension and nervous feeling. Push the front end hard and it will just tuck and you take a dirt sample.

300RR. I have ridden a 15 with SACHS OC forks. The motor is super sweet on these. Power delivery is super smooth but still makes big power up top. Bike handles much better than a KTM and feels lighter than the GG. It also has an E-Start that works. The suspension needs some work for sure but still better than WP.

2014 GG 300. Best suspension of the bikes in question. Motor is great up through the midrange then falls a little flat (cured with a HofHP pipe and squish adjustment). The bike is heavy so it is very stable especially at higher speeds. My 2011 never once shook it's head at me.

The Beta and the GG are both great bikes and either one is a good choice. You couldn't give me a KTM!


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[12Bravo]

Gear that bike down. I would suggest 12/48 or 13/52 or better yet 12/50. GasGas 200s put out a lot of power just not a lower revs so you have to gear them lower than they come from the factory. They also rev freely to the moon if jetted correctly so you can still get a decent top speed even when geared quite low.

This is something I am learning. 12/48 is a 4.0 gearing right? So this is for....What Top end or bottom end?

I just changed the gearing on the front, so I now have a 13/48. If I want more low end grunt, where do I go from here?

I am not concerned with top end speed, I don't get there! The trails I ride rarely let me out of 2nd gear anyways. Turns, humps, ROCKS, ROCKS and more ROCKS. Added in slick red clay soil too...lol

 

[memphis2857]

Smaller front or larger rear equals less top speed and more power. So in your case you would want a 12 front or a 50 rear. Your current gearing is way too high


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[12Bravo]

Smaller front or larger rear equals less top speed and more power. So in your case you would want a 12 front or a 50 rear. Your current gearing is way too high


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So I want a high ratio....meaing....12/48 is a 4.0 if I went to a 12/50 it would be 4.16 ratio.

Lower the number higher top speed, higher the number more torque....

 

[hadfield4wd]

So bravo. How much do you think suspension work is? A 200 should have no problem pulling you around. I understand you don't want to spend a bunch of money on a 16 year old bike but have you priced it out? My 99 ec250 that I just got, albeit in great condition, is getting some tlc from me. New piston, clean power valve, change fluids, check all bearings etc. I'll have less than $1500 total including buying the bike. I'm also having my suspension done as well. I have a local guy that is good. Not sure if I need springs yet, i doubt it but we'll see.

We have a "buddy bike". Kdx 200 that we all ride. One of my friends is 6'4" and 240
And it has plenty of power to pull him around. His usual ride is a former GNCC kx250.

 

[memphis2857]

Yep just like in a car when you look at rear differential ratios


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[12Bravo]

So bravo. How much do you think suspension work is? A 200 should have no problem pulling you around. I understand you don't want to spend a bunch of money on a 16 year old bike but have you priced it out? My 99 ec250 that I just got, albeit in great condition, is getting some tlc from me. New piston, clean power valve, change fluids, check all bearings etc. I'll have less than $1500 total including buying the bike. I'm also having my suspension done as well. I have a local guy that is good. Not sure if I need springs yet, i doubt it but we'll see.

We have a "buddy bike". Kdx 200 that we all ride. One of my friends is 6'4" and 240
And it has plenty of power to pull him around. His usual ride is a former GNCC kx250.

I priced the suspension re-sprung and re-valved for $700 locally.

I don't mind putting some money into it. But I'm not going to be nickle and dime to death, which has already started. I do have plans to change bearings with winter though.

 

[hadfield4wd]

Thats reasonable with new springs. As long as its complete shock charge and bushings in the forks. But keep in mind any bike you buy will need that. Suspension is always the first thing i do when I get a bike. My dual sport/trail bike has over $1500 into the suspension. I had to do a fork swap. Great money to spend on a bike.

Don't know if you've see. My threads but I hate when a bike nickles and dimes me. So I buy a used bike it gets a teardown/inspection/grease and put back together. Anything that is questionable gets replaced. Makes it reliable and gives me a baseline of good parts. I'd do this with a
2015 if I bought one used.

 

[12Bravo]

Thats reasonable with new springs. As long as its complete shock charge and bushings in the forks. But keep in mind any bike you buy will need that. Suspension is always the first thing i do when I get a bike. My dual sport/trail bike has over $1500 into the suspension. I had to do a fork swap. Great money to spend on a bike.

Don't know if you've see. My threads but I hate when a bike nickles and dimes me. So I buy a used bike it gets a teardown/inspection/grease and put back together. Anything that is questionable gets replaced. Makes it reliable and gives me a baseline of good parts. I'd do this with a
2015 if I bought one used.

I'm following your thread on the tear down. You moved rather quickly with the tear down part....

 

[Tbucket]

I have 13/52 and 12/50 on my 200 they both work great. I am @ 220 with gear
And the 200 have no PROBLEM hauling my but at all. Yes you need to work more shifting to get it on the sweet spot.

Jetting is a big think with the 200. You just need to play with it.

Sorry it has nothing to do with the differences between the bikes you were asking.
Just don't think bigger (cc ) is better

 

[12Bravo]

Jetting is a big think with the 200. You just need to play with it.

Mind sharing your jetting? Elevation and other information?

 

[Tbucket]

This is my set up. 2011 ec200 six day

Carb 36mm
PJ #40
MJ # 172
Needle DEK 3rd clip
SLIDE # 6
AS 1.5

V-force 3 reeds

Large volume power valve cover

Elevation: sea level to 700ft

Oil ratio 50:1

Transmission oil Rotella T6

Gear ratio 13/52

 

[hadfield4wd]

I'm following your thread on the tear down. You moved rather quickly with the tear down part....

Haha thats the easy part. All my parts will be here this week. Thursday night I'm getting started on the reconstruction.

 

[Mick]

Imo, a 250F is probably one of the easiest bikes to ride due to their smooth linear power delivery. They will rev to the moon and go as fast as you can ride them without the bike being the limiting factor. Avoid buying an 'old' one though as it can be ticking time bomb scenario. Any used bike should be investigated pretty thoroughly regardless.
.

I was going to suggest a 250F, the expensive top-end rebuild made me hold back. Just softening up the performance on 2T, believe would be better in the long run.

 

[Jakobi]

I was going to suggest a 250F, the expensive top-end rebuild made me hold back. Just softening up the performance on 2T, believe would be better in the long run.

Lots of moving parts in the top of those engines, and prices can start adding up quickly when things go pear shaped.

In saying that, many will easily run up to 7000kms with not much more than fresh oil and clean air with an average weekend warrior trail riding.

Different strokes for different folks. I'd personally own a 250F than a 450F for the terrain I ride, even if it does mean a bit more maintenance.

Pro's and con's with any potential bike purchase. Where one bike shines another often falls short, and vice versa. The goal is finding the right combination of bike, rider, and terrain that work well consistently - same principal as suspension setup and engine tuning. I could ride a rigid framed pushbike with with a whippersnapper motor through our trails, and I'm sure it'd be OK, but it wouldn't be as clean, fast, or fun as it is with the right bike for me.

So I guess that's the question here. Is it really what's the difference between these 3 brands of 300cc 2T? or should it be more along the lines of which bike would be more suited to me than the 200 I have at the moment?

 

[12Bravo]

So I guess that's the question here. Is it really what's the difference between these 3 brands of 300cc 2T? or should it be more along the lines of which bike would be more suited to me than the 200 I have at the moment?

I think you just hit the nail on the head.

I don't feel the 200 has the torque to move my large butt up the terrain I "Want" to ride. Of course I can find nice logging roads here, but who really wants to ride on those all day everyday, I don't.

I have thought about a 250F, lighter bike, but how will it feel power wise compared to the 200 2T?

 

[Jakobi]

I have thought about a 250F, lighter bike, but how will it feel power wise compared to the 200 2T?

The only way you'll know from here is through riding them yourself. You have a baseline in that you have the 200. I would shorten the gearing up again (will make it snappy and you'll have to shuffle gears a bit more often), rack up some seat time and ask to take peoples bikes for a little ride at every opportunity.

In many cases a short ride on someone elses bike won't be exactly how it would be getting to know the same bike yourself, but it will give you a taste and a baseline.

Been a long time since I've rode a 250F, and even longer since I rode a 200. Latest small bore was a 125 which obviously had a lot less off the bottom end but pulled well on song. When I originally moved from a 250F to my first 2T (EC300) I thought the low rpm roll on ability to just putter around was comparable - twist the throttle and they are worlds apart.

Try and investigate some dyno data and pay attention to the curves and the rpm spread in which the curve is plotted. Huge differences in an engine that makes 30HP and does so mainly between 4000-7000rpm and another that makes 30HP but builds between 2500-13500rpm. The later is much easier to dial in the amount you want without having to dance.

 

[firffighter]

I'll chime in here since I've owned every size Gasgas 2-stroke as well as a WR250f and now a KTM 450exc.

In regards to the Gasgas 2-strokes; each can be ridden by "heavier" riders without issue. I weigh around 215 and have no issues on the 200, 250, or 300 when it comes to lugging or climbing up nasty steep terrain. The differences is in how you get up and over the obstacles. The 200 takes more rpms and more clutch work than the 250 or 300. The 200 Gasgas lugs incredibly well for a small cc bike and I never found anything it couldn't climb, but it does need to be in proper rpms and some clutch work. Check out some of Liv2days's videos and watch him conquer some good climbs on his 200.

As mentioned, correct gearing and jetting are essential on the 200. 13/50 or 13/52 is needed to utilize the lower rpm power on the 200 and good solid jetting, as suggested on this site let's the bike run properly giving it the ability to run well at those lower rpms.

The 250 is a fantastic bike that can lug with the best of them or sing on the pipe. It's all in the set up and if jetted properly will lug down like a 300 and climb anything you throw at it with ease.

The 300 is just the ultimate lug with ease bike. Throw it in 3rd gear and let it climb anything without effort. The 300 takes the least amount of rider input.

The 250f is a super fun format for flat, flowing trails. It can slice and dice very well. But, it's not great climber and 250f's are the most risky used bike to buy as mentioned before with not great long term reliability.

A 450 is a completely different animal and very dependent on year, make and model of bike. Buying a WR 450 or a RFS KTM and lug all day without issue and put 20,000 miles in it with steady oil changes and clean air flowing.

Obviously, the newer the bike, usually the better, but I've always looked for older, low hour bikes and have had great success. Gasgas, especially has unreal reliability and they just keep going and are very durable.

Hope this helps.

BTW, the 200 Gasgas is the most fun bike I've ever owned. The handling combined with good stability and great motor are a fantastic combination. I think I was fastest on the EC200.

But, the 300 Gasgas is the easiest bike I've ever ridden. It has an amazing motor that takes so little input. That, combined with great handling make it so easy to ride.

 

[Mick]

Lots of moving parts in the top of those engines, and prices can start adding up quickly when things go pear shaped.

Oh yeah...I have owned a couple few modern 4T's it is the gift that keeps on taking.

My last one a KTM 505, swore me off e-start only bikes. Sorry Sherco, your 2T's are off the list for me...

So I guess that's the question here. Is it really what's the difference between these 3 brands of 300cc 2T? or should it be more along the lines of which bike would be more suited to me than the 200 I have at the moment?

I think just buying something a little fresher, than trying to learn on clapped out bike...would do wonders.

That or an aircooled 4T...for something to learn on. I know a guy that is awfully quick on a Honda 230...you can pick up a barely used one for not much.