Ducati looking @ purchasing Gas-Gas

[barkmuncher]

While surfing through the Cycle News website, I came across an article in their online magazine that states that Ducati is interested in the company,apparently to add off road bikes to the line-up. The article is on page 8 of the Jan 16th edition. This could be very interesting!

 

[REVERUP]

Man If that happens, I hope they don't morph the two brand names together. Cause that would mean the new brand would be called "DUC GAS"

Sorry that was pretty bad! I couldn't help myself though.

 

[TooFastTim]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO......

They can have a bit but no more than 40%. Gasser must retain that family business, dead keen, in it for the sport attitude. As soon as it becomes hard nosed business the Gasser we know and love will be a thing of the past.

On the other hand..if they were to be bought out, Duc are probably the best bet. Shame they're not Spanish. Hmm...the Ducati 450 singles were made in Spain..

Thinks...more...it would be great for the US 'cause Gasser would get hold of the Ducati distribution network..it would also help Gasser thru' their continuing cash flow crises.

Can you please post linky?

 

[JRDoz]

 

[Skidad]

What's everyones thoughts about this possibility. Good or bad?


Skidad in MA

 

[barkeater]

As long as they don't rejigger the entire North American US distribution network for the 3rd time in less than a year. Duc has a good history of opting for performance over mass market appeal. R&D budget would most definetly increase. Prices are sure to increase.

 

[Berkyboy]

My understanding would put this at maybe a 1:100 possibility.

Over the last couple of year's a lot of rumors about other companies looking at buying into GasGas have been circulating including companies like: Harley Davidson, KTM, and Polaris.

These rumors are usually based on one of those companies' visiting GasGas and looking into buying into the company, but nothing comes of it as only 1/3 of the company is for sale, that percentage held by the existing financial partner.

Although I trust Alan Cathcart's judgment in putting the story together his lead includes the word "rumored" and that pretty much puts it into perspective.

The story touches on 2 areas:

1) that Ducati is continuely looking into moving into other motorcycle lines (off-road and trials) after loosing out on Husqvarna.

and 2) GasGas builds some very innovative motorcycles.

This thread should be able to provide some descent input into what could happen if another company was to take over majority control of GasGas.

In my opnion Ducati wouldn't be my first choice but it definetly wouldn't be my last choice either.

 

[TooFastTim]

Steve, who would be your first choice?

 

[Berkyboy]

Hopefully somebody who would leave the research and development and manufactoring in Spain.

GasGas has had goodluck with building a great off-road enduro bike where most people who get a chance to ride one, regardless of what bike they currently own, give them high praise, espcially in stock form.

GasGas trials bikes speak for themselves and their new "flathead" engine design is going to set the trials world on fire.

Somebody like BMW would be great but now that they have Husqvarna I kind of doubt they would buy into GasGas unless their interested in trials. When Husky was up for sale I often wondered what type of motorcycle they and GasGas could build if they only merged.

In fact the trials line is most likey GasGas's strongest suit when you look at why other motorcycle companies might consider buying GasGas. Both BMW/Husqvarna and KTM are without a trials bike line and that most likely accounted for KTM's look at GasGas a few years ago. Of course there would just be something wrong with a KTM built GasGas.

If that were to happen at least we know that KTM and Husaberg have co-existed for almost 10 years already since KTM bought HBG so GasGas would probably still have its own identity.

I did get a little excited when Polaris was looking at GasGas, mostly because they are a US/Minnesota company, but you have to realize they were looking at GasGas as a means of getting a foothold in Europe.

They most likely would have moved some of their ATV production to Spain to avoid European Union taxes and probably would have moved the GasGas research and design to the US.

Polaris definatly could use a dirt bike to go with their ATV line but their a billion dollar company and if they loose interest in something their not afraid to close a plant, or eliminate a whole line-up like they did with their personal watercraft line a few years ago.

My gut feeling is that GasGas will pick up another finacial partner who will control some of the purse strings and leave the production and reseach and development as is.

Of course all of this is just fodder for speculation sake but you asked.

 

[TooFastTim]

Personally I think you're overrating the value if the trials market. It's very small with very little market exposure (when was the last time you saw trials on TV?). I think annual total production of trials bikes is something in the region of 20-25 thousand units per year (Gasser, Sherco, Montesa, Scorpa & Beta) and that's saturated. Small fry where Yamaha probably sell that many YZF's in the states annually.

IMO it's the enduro market that's attractive.

Let's discuss the options:

KTM, KTM could buy but would kill Gasser. No love lost there. They'd kill them off to get them off their backs

BMW, too late.

Ducati: discussed above.

Aprilia..hmm might be a good suitor. But they, like Gasser, are always lurching from crisis to crisis.

Guzzi, not in a position to buy anybody. Are they still owned by Tomaso?

Vespa. Possibly

Triumph: Niche marketing. Bloor doesn't see the value in racing.

Chinese: Ah! The Chinese bought out Benelli. It seems to be working. No doubts the Chinese would like an off-road product. Production could be moved to China, but R&D would remain in Spain (even the Chinese admit to having metallurgy problems). A distinct possibility.

 

[kim]

Interesting point about the Chinese.

BMW bought husky after their initial attempt. Realising that to get a foothold in the market, its much cheaper to buy into the market than to start from scratch.

If the Chinese start using this business strategy, we could be in for some interesting times.

Imagine a Chinese takeover of Harley Davidson.......
Could simply after-market sales. Sir, I would like a number 5, 18 and 27. LOL.

K

 

[JRDoz]

Imagine a Chinese takeover of Harley Davidson.......

I thought they already produce Harley parts anyway now!!!

 

[MattR]

Imagine a Chinese takeover of Harley Davidson.......

With a chinese accent that would be like Harrey Dawidson.

I couldn't resist... my wife is chinese and struggles with l & v sometimes.

 

[Boomhauer]

My understanding would put this at maybe a 1:100 possibility.

Over the last couple of year's a lot of rumors about other companies looking at buying into GasGas have been circulating including companies like: Harley Davidson, KTM, and Polaris.

These rumors are usually based on one of those companies' visiting GasGas and looking into buying into the company, but nothing comes of it as only 1/3 of the company is for sale, that percentage held by the existing financial partner.

Although I trust Alan Cathcart's judgment in putting the story together his lead includes the word "rumored" and that pretty much puts it into perspective.

The story touches on 2 areas:

1) that Ducati is continuely looking into moving into other motorcycle lines (off-road and trials) after loosing out on Husqvarna.

and 2) GasGas builds some very innovative motorcycles.

This thread should be able to provide some descent input into what could happen if another company was to take over majority control of GasGas.

In my opnion Ducati wouldn't be my first choice but it definetly wouldn't be my last choice either.

Holy Cow Steve you are still alive! I thought you crawled under a rock and died!

Good to see you posting your words of wisdom.

Okay thread hijack is over.

 

[TooFastTim]

Holy Cow Steve you are still alive! I thought you crawled under a rock and died!

Nah, no rocks would have him!

 

[Boomhauer]

Nah, no rocks would have him!

You got that right!

 

[Berkyboy]

By identifiying the trials bike line of GasGas as being desirable to a company like KTM I was just pointing out that KTM doesn't have a trials bikes line now and GasGas does. When KTM bought out Husaberg they bought their four-stroke technology. If KTM was to buy out GasGas they would instantly have a competitive trials bike design to copy.



As far as the chinese go they definately have the money to buy out GasGas, or any other small company if they want, but they don't have the off-road design skills to do what the present ownership of GasGas does.

The chinese are great at copying stuff and a cheap source for parts but I doubt they could continue designing great off-road motorcycles. That comes from engineers who ride trials and enduro.

 

[TooFastTim]

By identifiying the trials bike line of GasGas as being desirable to a company like KTM I was just pointing out that KTM doesn't have a trials bikes line now and GasGas does. When KTM bought out Husaberg they bought their four-stroke technology. If KTM was to buy out GasGas they would instantly have a competitive trials bike design to copy.

Yeah, but why would they want a trials bike? Small market & no prestige associated with the sport. KTM flirted with trials in the late '70's and dumped the project when it was near production. Neat looking bike too. KTM's have said that they see their future in big trailies and touring bikes. This dovetails nicely with their Dakar involvment which of course fits nicely with enduros. If they did want a trials bike it would make far more sence to buy Beta with whom they already have a close relationship (Beta make the small KTM motors and use KTM motors for their enduro bikes).

As far as the chinese go they definately have the money to buy out GasGas, or any other small company if they want, but they don't have the off-road design skills to do what the present ownership of GasGas does.

The chinese are great at copying stuff and a cheap source for parts but I doubt they could continue designing great off-road motorcycles. That comes from engineers who ride trials and enduro.

As long as ensure that they are following the designs to a tee. Problem is that Chew Win Fat (head QA, Jaixing Motorcycles) figures he can get mild steel at a fraction of the price of Chome-Moly from the State steel manufacturer and pocket the difference.

*Note names have been changed to protect the innocent

 

[gasgasman]

Speaking of Chinese bikes.........

Here's that "Gas Gas" 300cc 4 stroke everyone wants.

http://www.ecvv.com/china_product_pic/info/China_I_200631662942519686_Dirt_Bike_300cc_with_Suzuki_Engine.jpg

 

[TooFastTim]

http://www.ecvv.com/china_product_pic/info/China_I_200631662942519686_Dirt_Bike_300cc_with_Su zuki_Engine.jpg

Bugger me! Cheeky aren't they?