Easiest/Cheapest way to get some more bottom/mid grunt

[95jersey]

I have a 2014 300 with a House of Horsepower silencer. Jetting is NEDW 42 pilot, 180 main. The bike lacks low end grunt. Unless I am on the pipe or in the meat of the curve, it seems to fall flat. I tried a 51 tooth rear, but then I am ether a gear too high or too low in the trails.

I went back down to a 50, but I am looking for something to pull me out of the corners with some more torque.

What is the best mod for the buck? Head pipe? Higher compression Porting?

I don't want to be stuck running race gas, but was thinking of taking my head to machine shop and getting squish done with some additional compression.

Not concerned with top end as I am usually in tight trees.

 

[Terrence R]

I have a 2014 300 with a House of Horsepower silencer. Jetting is NEDW 42 pilot, 180 main. The bike lacks low end grunt. Unless I am on the pipe or in the meat of the curve, it seems to fall flat. I tried a 51 tooth rear, but then I am ether a gear too high or too low in the trails.

I went back down to a 50, but I am looking for something to pull me out of the corners with some more torque.

What is the best mod for the buck? Head pipe? Higher compression Porting?

I don't want to be stuck running race gas, but was thinking of taking my head to machine shop and getting squish done with some additional compression.

Not concerned with top end as I am usually in tight trees.

It's ironic because I'm looking to do the exact opposite. I have loads of bottom end grunt right now. I got the extra bottom end grunt from running a thinner base gasket and installing a checkpoint off-road large volume power valve cover. The most noticeable difference was actually through the thinner base gasket though.

 

[adriano.ro]

It's ironic because I'm looking to do the exact opposite. I have loads of bottom end grunt right now. I got the extra bottom end grunt from running a thinner base gasket and installing a checkpoint off-road large volume power valve cover. The most noticeable difference was actually through the thinner base gasket though.

Do you use 0 3mm or 0.5mm? I have 0.8mm right now,one 0.5mm and one 0.3mm.

 

[Terrence R]

Do you use 0 3mm or 0.5mm? I have 0.8mm right now,one 0.5mm and one 0.3mm.

Currently .3mm. I'm going to run the .5mm plus the .3mm like your setup. Even going from a .5mm to a .3mm, I noticed a big difference.

 

[95jersey]

Good information, totally forgot about the base gasket. I am running the OEM metal gasket...whatever that is. I do have thinner paper gaskets, not sure what sizes they are...I will give them try.

 

[Terrence R]

Good information, totally forgot about the base gasket. I am running the OEM metal gasket...whatever that is. I do have thinner paper gaskets, not sure what sizes they are...I will give them try.

The oem metal base gasket should be .5mm. I'm going to try an oem metal .5mm with .3mm paper. Hopefully it pans out.

 

[Zman]

You can also advance the ignition timing (rotate the base plate opposite the engine rotation). How much depends on your engine, fuel octane and where it is set now. On some stock engines I have advanced the plate between 1 and 3 mm measured at the locking screws. You need to listed very carefully for detonation/pinging (sounds like marbles in your engine under acceleration) because if you go too far you can melt your piston.

I would start with 1mm and go up from there.

 

[adriano.ro]

Ignition timing is risky job,make big difference to power delivery or is better to stay safe and take all power from jetting?.

 

[adriano.ro]

You can also advance the ignition timing (rotate the base plate opposite the engine rotation). How much depends on your engine, fuel octane and where it is set now. On some stock engines I have advanced the plate between 1 and 3 mm measured at the locking screws. You need to listed very carefully for detonation/pinging (sounds like marbles in your engine under acceleration) because if you go too far you can melt your piston.

I would start with 1mm and go up from there.

I need to take off the flywheel for timing adjusting?

 

[GasGasDreamer]

on my 06 300 I noticed a big difference with the oversize exhaust cover.
I also noticed that anything but race fuel sucks

 

[hamilton]

I wouldn't call it cheap, but the FMF pipe adds some bottom and mid. I like it a lot on my 12 250 but again jetting for it is key.

btw I have a n3cj needle if you want to try it.

 

[95jersey]

I wouldn't call it cheap, but the FMF pipe adds some bottom and mid. I like it a lot on my 12 250 but again jetting for it is key.

btw I have a n3cj needle if you want to try it.

Sure! I finally got the jetting down with this NEDW, It runs good now, no sputter or lean issue, clean all the way through, just a little sluggish on torque down the bottom. I hear this is common with the NEDW.

 

[Lotus54]

I installed an OKO 32mm carb on my 200.
Not much money and wokrs down low a lot better, smoother everywhere and I didn't think that much of a cut on top (I'm sure there is on top- but I don't care for what I'm setting the bike up for)

Mark

 

[Zman]

To advance the timing, you do not need to take of the flywheel. The timing plate screws are easily accessible behind the flywheel cover.

If you don't hear detonation, advancing the timing a few degrees is not risky. I have done it on 8 different GG bikes from 125 to 300cc engines. If you hear detonation you retard the timing until it goes away.

 

[memphis2857]

Spend the coin and get a House of HP pipe then throw in the n3cj needle that was offered then go do some push ups because you are going to need some upper body strength to ride your new fire breather!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fred1956]

It's been said before but bears saying again- if you haven't had the squish done correctly nothing else will help.....once the squish is right everything falls into place. IMO the first thing to be done to the engine should be squish correction/optimization. Jetting is easier after squish as well. I've done it on every GG I have owned plus a few for other riders, NEVER been disappointed. Les is my go to guy but I haven't had one done in a while

 

[Jakobi]

It's been said before but bears saying again- if you haven't had the squish done correctly nothing else will help.....once the squish is right everything falls into place. IMO the first thing to be done to the engine should be squish correction/optimization. Jetting is easier after squish as well. I've done it on every GG I have owned plus a few for other riders, NEVER been disappointed. Les is my go to guy but I haven't had one done in a while

Oath and some!

I spent endless hours chasing jetting around, fiddling with air screw position, needle diameters and pilots... any time the weather changed, the jetting requirements did!

Maybe I'm not quite as anal as I was. Maybe I just get on with it now.. but with my latest I started with the head and only tried a couple of combos to a point where its basically set and forget. Good fuel economy, starts hot/cold, doesn't run super clean but produces decent grunt and responds well.

IMO, it's always a trade off. A clean running engine during light loads won't pull as strong under load. A strong engine will always have some blubber and load up a tad if puttered around on. It's up to the individual to match these to suit the purpose/intent.

Many many many variables from squish, compression, port timing/changes from model to model, bike to bike. Carb setup (float, slide cutaway/notch, casting, etc). Fuels, oils, air qualities, air filters and oils too. Pipe setup (inc any damage).

We cover a large geography, we all want different things from our bikes. It's not surprising we don't find the exact same happy place.

 

[Zman]

I agree that setting the squish will yield the best results across the board. This original post was asking for the cheapest/easiest path to more low end. Assuming the engine is in good working order and the jetting is close, here is my list of mods in order of cost.

change - cost - difference in performance

1. advance ignition timing - free - noticeable
2. thinner base gasket - <$15 - noticeable
3. head squish - $50 to $75 - significant
4. RB carb mod - $167 to $192 - significant but not as much as the squish

If you advance the ignition timing and later do the squish you will want to retard the timing back toward stock position.

 

[95jersey]

Thanks for all the information. I will definitely try the timing and head gasket. Regarding squish. I have read about it and understand how you measure it, but once you determine your measurements, what/where is the work done? I have not been able to find how the head is modified. Can someone explain squish after the measurement is taken.

 

[pscook]

Thanks for all the information. I will definitely try the timing and head gasket. Regarding squish. I have read about it and understand how you measure it, but once you determine your measurements, what/where is the work done? I have not been able to find how the head is modified. Can someone explain squish after the measurement is taken.

This should help answer your questions, hopefully:
http://www.gasgasrider.org/html/measuring_squish.html

The article states that the combustion chamber is reshaped to provide optimum combustion; basically the dome is machined to a new shape as required, based on the info you provide.