FSE 450 2005 idle misfire/stall when hot

[expirmininkas]

Try and squirt some engine oil in from spark plug hole. If the reading then jumps up to normal or even more, then you have a worn engine. Also, you can test your pressure gauge against some other manometer (tire for ex).

Hi, just "thinking out loud": maybe low compression is due to the influence of decopressor? As its nature is to lower compression for easier starting.

Aslo, is it normal, that exhaust pipe at the cylinder becomes very hot? See picture, taken in the dark garage.

 

[Tafka]

Yes, when there is no air movement the pipe gets nice and red.

 

[expirmininkas]

Hi,

Thank you!!!! The more I continue to use the bike, the more it is similar to a self-willed person - it is totally unpredictable. On saturday I have heated up the engine, then I've tried to kill the engine and start it again. No problems were found, the engine was starting very smoothly every time. Lateron, when I've got back after some riding, I could not start the engine for the first time after killing - only during the second or the third time, with throttle fully open.
Also, I've bought new compression meter and did the test. The result was similar to this shown in the picture (I am saying similar, as in the picture is the result of testing of perfectly working KTM 560 six days, 2012). So, I presume, everything is ok with the compression?

 

[expirmininkas]

I have managed to connect bike to the computer with Guzzidiag. Can somebody tell me are theese readings ok? Se attachment.
Also I've found fault's stored and managed to clear them.

 

[Tafka]

Seems ok

 

[expirmininkas]

Seems ok

Thank you, and btw, thank you for sharing map file of 2007y. When the weather shall become warm enough, I'll take the bike to the test into forest

 

[Tafka]

Thank you, and btw, thank you for sharing map file of 2007y. When the weather shall become warm enough, I'll take the bike to the test into forest

No worries, that's why I uploaded those MAP files, so that everyone can access and use them!

 

[portugaldude]

hi there, how do you upload the files on the bike?

 

[Tafka]

If you don't know how, i wouldn't mess with the ECU....
But this thread should help.... http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18385

 

[expirmininkas]

Hi all,

So, my problems with miss-fire where solved by increasing the number of CO trim up to 45, also, by disconnecting yellow/blue wire (I do not know, which action had impact, but when riding in the forest, I have connected yellow/blue wire back - and I could here some miss-fire occasionally and the sound of exhaust has changed. So, I like it with yellow/blue wire disconnected more ) . However, consumption of gasoline has increased accordingly - now I can ride ~ 70 km with standard gasoline tank (I think the capacity is ~ 6 ltr.).
Starting issues were also solved by doing so: if the bike does not start from the first time, I engage the ignition for the second time, then do WOT, later close throttle and press start button - bike starts perfectly. If not, keeping WOT and pressing starter button helps - starts immediately Ufff, my GG acts like a spoiled person.

p.s. BTW, I have a map from Tafka, 2007y, uploaded to my bike's computer

 

[Tafka]

What was your CO trim before?
Mostly disconnecting the wire helps most users, so maybe try setting the CO trim back to original and try again?

 

[expirmininkas]

What was your CO trim before?
Mostly disconnecting the wire helps most users, so maybe try setting the CO trim back to original and try again?

I think it was factory default - 22. And think, I will try different CO trim numbers, just to find a perfect balance

 

[Tafka]

I had also originally 22. Going from 22 to 45....that can mess up the fuel mixture pretty good....i would go back to 22 and try from there +/-5 can make good change also (when the yellow/blue wire is disconnected)

 

[expirmininkas]

I had also originally 22. Going from 22 to 45....that can mess up the fuel mixture pretty good....i would go back to 22 and try from there +/-5 can make good change also (when the yellow/blue wire is disconnected)

Hilow,

I have made 28, and have disconnected yellow/blue wire. No misfire since I did so. And if I cannot start the bike from the first time, I turn off/on ignition for the second time, then fully open throttle, later close it and then I push starter button - bike starts every time I do so. A bit annoying, but still, I can start the bike It seems strange to me...it totaly depends on the bike's mood - sometimes it starts from the first time when cold, sometimes not, sometimes it starts from the first time, when hot, sometimes not. But with the procedure I've described before, it starts all the time
Also, I've noticed, that after modification of TRIM and disconnection of yellow/blue wire, the exhaust pipe is red less even in the dark garage, and it has only a bit red color right near the cylinder.

 

[kasparsL]

Hilow,

I have made 28, and have disconnected yellow/blue wire. No misfire since I did so. And if I cannot start the bike from the first time, I turn off/on ignition for the second time, then fully open throttle, later close it and then I push starter button - bike starts every time I do so. A bit annoying, but still, I can start the bike It seems strange to me...it totaly depends on the bike's mood - sometimes it starts from the first time when cold, sometimes not, sometimes it starts from the first time, when hot, sometimes not. But with the procedure I've described before, it starts all the time
Also, I've noticed, that after modification of TRIM and disconnection of yellow/blue wire, the exhaust pipe is red less even in the dark garage, and it has only a bit red color right near the cylinder.

Hello, what cind of yellow/blue wires are you talking about?

 

[expirmininkas]

You should take of the gas tank from the bike and you will see ECU (computer) fitted onto the tank. You will see two wires - one is black and connected to one screw, holding the ECU. The other one, somewhere near the mentioned black wire (black wire and blue/yellow wire are somehow together), is blue/yellow color connected with the water resistant connection to another wire having the same colors blue/yellow. If the said blue/yellow wire is disconnected, the mixture of fuel gets more rich - I can feel it when riding, also, no back fires during riding, when throttle is closed quickly (downshifting for example). However, disconnection did not solve starting issues, also, it increased fuel consumption, but I have more fun riding with this wire disconnected. So, what I've done in order to start the bike easier (theses steps did not help yet..):
1. Changed spark plug to the new Denso iridium (previously it was NGK iridium, no difference).
2. Secured connection of fuel pump relay.
3. Secured connection of the may connector to the ECU.
4. Did the valve clearance check. Strange, but after having 7 000 km, clearance was ok, no need to adjust.
5. Fitted new lithium battery with 130 CCA.

Update on 10/18/2018 - receipt for cold starting of my bike: open throttle very slightly (~ 1mm) before starting and hit starter button. Fires right away!!!!

 

[SparrowCZ]

FSE 450 EC 2003 - similar problems

Hello!
First, sorry for my grammar, I'm not very good at technical English.

My friend bodliCZ recently bought a used GG EC 450 FSE 2003 and we have problems getting it to running state.

Previous owner changed:
1. the stator
2. the rotor
3. the rectifier/regulator
4. the starter "special bearings" We have all the old parts available.

We changed:
1. the battery for new
2. The spark plug
3. We tried different spark plug
4. We measured whole cabling and replaced some faulty/dodgy wires. The issues are still the same.

We rode it a bit, but there were these issues:
1. Starting the beast cold and hot is a pain (when HOT its close to impossible) We tried the different techniques described in this thread and few others on different forums. So far the best technique seems to be 1. The ignition ON, wait for the pump to stop, 2. Throttle wide open, let it vent 5-10sec, 3. throttle close and open just a tiny bit (0,5-1mm) 3. Start. Then it usually starts.

2. We think it does not give enough electricity to recharge (i don't know what the term is for this) At high rev it gives only something around 13,4V My brother thinks it should be more as it is higher on other similar 4stroke bikes

3. We do not have a spare/new Ignition coil we could test (our shops around Czech Republic cannot get it even from Spain, they say ) The ignition coil+the cable+the spark plug cap is one piece. Do you guys know if it can be replaced for another model/year/bike brand (like the DRZ400 ?)

4. We do not have access to any DIAG

So, can you guys advise:
1. Any thing to check for the hot starts problems?
2. We don't know how much voltage it should give at idle or higher revs. Do you know?
3. Do you know if there is any suitable spare/replacement ignition coil?
4. Does anyone know what should be the resistance for the spark plug cap? And what should be the measurements for the ignition coil?
5. Also you did mention the TPS sensor. Where could we find this?
6. Can you advise what OBD connector/cable we could use and what DIAG ? I've read something about Guzzidiag
7. We would like to test the injector too. Any idea/tip of how to do that? What are the good and the bad conditions?

Any pictures, schema, workshop manual links in any language would be greatly appreciated!
For bodliCZ we thank you!


EDIT: I've found the Guzzidiag web page, also the links to the cables, we are about to buy this and then see...

 

[Lipilape]

Have you ridden the bike "good"....i mean, little bit more gas than idle
The plug gets black pretty easy when riding at idle speeds.
If you have used the throttle more then i would start checking other things...seems like running too rich.
TPS could be the issue BUT the injector can be also the problem!
I think my problem was caused by two things....worn/dirty TPS and injector.

Hello, good, I'm new here but with old problems my name is victor and I'm from Girona I have a 2006 fse and it's giving me a bag I had a 2006 map and from one day to the next it didn't want to go anymore I opened the engine I put piston rings and everything his and nothing managed to go wrong but well I did not change 4 tps I have put as they say from zero to 290 reset and it drops to 4.74 and 63 in the 2 maps and with the 4 tps I have changed the map I have mounted the 2007 and exactly the same to 2006 it does the same to me any idea?



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