Hard starting

[CombatYoga]

2014 XC300R - HoH pipe/silencer/slide, S3 head, running Torco Accelerator for 98 octane.

I removed all of the estart crap off the bike and am kicking it now.

Our harescrambles series is a dead engine start. Esmerelda doesn't always light up on the first kick, which can be an issue for the races.

Any thoughts/tips/suggestions on how I can improve that?

I am definitely ratcheting the starter up to the top so that I get a full kick.
It's not that it never lights on the first kick, but oftentimes it takes 2 or 3 kicks.

 

[CACTUSREID]

put the estart back in?? probably not what you want to hear, but hey it was you asking for suggestions.

 

[Rod Overstreet]

2014 XC300R - HoH pipe/silencer/slide, S3 head, running Torco Accelerator for 98 octane.

I removed all of the estart crap off the bike and am kicking it now.

Our harescrambles series is a dead engine start. Esmerelda doesn't always light up on the first kick, which can be an issue for the races.

Any thoughts/tips/suggestions on how I can improve that?

I am definitely ratcheting the starter up to the top so that I get a full kick.
It's not that it never lights on the first kick, but oftentimes it takes 2 or 3 kicks.

Are you in gear while trying to start, or in neutral?

 

[CombatYoga]

Hey Mark - I am starting in 2nd gear.
I have learned to keep the clutch in and rev the bike prior to killing it to make sure those clutch plates release as much as possible.

I was wondering if my kickstart troubles had anything to do with the higher compression head? And if so, what some possible solutions were. I've never had the squish properly measured - I assume this is still an issue with the S3 head? Would that help?

 

[Rod Overstreet]

Hey Mark - I am starting in 2nd gear.
I have learned to keep the clutch in and rev the bike prior to killing it to make sure those clutch plates release as much as possible.

I was wondering if my kickstart troubles had anything to do with the higher compression head? And if so, what some possible solutions were. I've never had the squish properly measured - I assume this is still an issue with the S3 head? Would that help?

I am Rod. I asked the question of neutral or in gear. Are you asking Mark to respond or me?

 

[CombatYoga]

I meant Rod - trying to do too many things at once - sorry Rod!

 

[Moto7man]

I don't know how my Gasser starts with the kicker, I'm addicted to the button start. If you are in gear when you are kicking it you are going to have some drag. I think that is what Rod was referring to in his post.

 

[Rod Overstreet]

Hey Mark - I am starting in 2nd gear.
I have learned to keep the clutch in and rev the bike prior to killing it to make sure those clutch plates release as much as possible.

I was wondering if my kickstart troubles had anything to do with the higher compression head? And if so, what some possible solutions were. I've never had the squish properly measured - I assume this is still an issue with the S3 head? Would that help?

#1. Just that we all know...your using the S3 head but which dome? #2 Have you actually done a compression test with a gauge?

 

[CombatYoga]

I am using the middle insert (high compression) - not the ultra-high compression head.

I realize that I will have some drag starting the bike in gear (I run a Core 3.0 Rekluse as well). That's why I mentioned that I take some precautions to try to get the clutch plates to release when I get to the line.

The issue for me is that the bike lit up immediately on the first kick (even half kicks) every time prior to the latest round of changes (adding the S3 head, etc.).

Now it's a bit of a gamble. Last Saturday I was second to the first turn - the bike lit right up. On Sunday it took three kicks and I was second to last to the first turn.

Just wondering if there is anything I should look at to improve that consistent starting.

Thank you for letting me know that you love your estart. ;-) I loved mine too until I went through a bendix and 2 ring gears.

 

[johnny barber]

Starting

Try priming the cyl by holding on the throttle open a bit while hitting the kill switch. After the bike is off I keep the clutch in and rock the bike back and forth a bit to insure the clutch is free. I run a S3 head with same insert and can usually do very well with my starts. Hope this helps

 

[Rod Overstreet]

I am using the middle insert (high compression) - not the ultra-high compression head.

I realize that I will have some drag starting the bike in gear (I run a Core 3.0 Rekluse as well). That's why I mentioned that I take some precautions to try to get the clutch plates to release when I get to the line.

The issue for me is that the bike lit up immediately on the first kick (even half kicks) every time prior to the latest round of changes (adding the S3 head, etc.).

Now it's a bit of a gamble. Last Saturday I was second to the first turn - the bike lit right up. On Sunday it took three kicks and I was second to last to the first turn.

Just wondering if there is anything I should look at to improve that consistent starting.

Thank you for letting me know that you love your estart. ;-) I loved mine too until I went through a bendix and 2 ring gears.

So...if the bike generally started first kick before you installed the S3, and now it may take 1 kick or 3....I say again. Do a compression test. Gauge installed, holding the throttle wide open, (SPARK PLUG IN THE CAP AND GROUNDED!!!) and kick thru until gauge tops out (usually within 5 kicks) How much compression does the gauge read? I'm curious...maybe too much?

 

[memphis2857]

Could it be as simple as the pilot circuit is too lean with all these new mods? I had to go to a 42 pilot when I did the S3 head and HofHP pipe. I ran the black insert which is .5mm lower than the red one and my measured squish was still 1.5 mm. Was 2.5 with the stock head!!


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[Rod Overstreet]

Could it be as simple as the pilot circuit is too lean with all these new mods? I had to go to a 42 pilot when I did the S3 head and HofHP pipe. I ran the black insert which is .5mm lower than the red one and my measured squish was still 1.5 mm. Was 2.5 with the stock head!!


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42 pilot is stock on his bike, but you are right. If he's dropped down any lower, that could be a problem. I have the S3 head, black dome, HoHP system front and rear...the increase in compression is obvious just from the feel of the kicker, but it fires every time.

 

[memphis2857]

42 pilot is stock on his bike, but you are right. If he's dropped down any lower, that could be a problem. I have the S3 head, black dome, HoHP system front and rear...the increase in compression is obvious just from the feel of the kicker, but it fires every time.

Yes mine started faster than you could kiss a duck! In 2nd gear I was feeding it the clutch before the kicker ever hit bottom and 8 out of 10 times leading them into the first turn.

Current bike, I'm usually leading the row behind me into the first turn. Damn 4 strokes!


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[CombatYoga]

I'm running 42 pilot - have the full HoH system as well.
Red insert on the S3.

I've never done a compression test Rod - I will get that done.

 

[Rod Overstreet]

I'm running 42 pilot - have the full HoH system as well.
Red insert on the S3.

I've never done a compression test Rod - I will get that done.

Just be careful with that plug, and know there isn't any gas / gas fumes around when you kick it over, and please remove the tank first. I've seen bad things happen quick....

 

[Jakobi]

If you've simply changed the head over from stock to the black S3 head you've bumped up compression considerably as well as reduced the squish clearance. If you haven't made any jetting changes this is where I'd be looking.

Other good advice re rocking the bike a little to ensure the clutch plates aren't binding.

Personally I'd be ensuring the bike is at full operating temp and then fine tuning the air screw until you get the setting that works best. On my bike once at temp it usually likes a little throttle as well as the kick but still fires no dramas.

 

[JP4]

I too race XC and we have dead engines starts. I found that warming up the clutch made a huge difference in getting a 1 kick start. The Gassers have a pretty draggy clutch - not complaining as it guarantees that the bike hooks up very well.

While warming the bike up on the starting line I leave the bike in 2nd gear and slip the clutch, holding it right on the engagement point. I even let the bike start to move a little and slip the clutch in and out rocking the bike back and forth. I do this for a couple of minutes.

This has been the trick for me. Guaranteed 1 kick starts in 2nd gear since I adopted this routine.

 

[CACTUSREID]

yoga, I was not trying to be a smart ass with my reinstall the estart comment, I was just trying to raise a point that you subconsciously may have not wanted to look at again. I'm betting most of the ktms that are starting faster and beating you to the first turn because of that, are hitting the magic button and taking off. This is the future of riding/ enduro racing and saving time and energy when your in the middle of a race, and stalled out a number of times, even if it's no fault of yours, it is your time/energy and overall speed that is paying the price. Even if you stay with the stock "heavy battery" etc. I have a hard time believing that a few pounds of e-start kit on a bike is going to make a guy wear out and lose a race because he is carrying all that extra weight. In fact I think quite the opposite might be true? and you can drop 3-5 lbs with a lithium battery as well.
If you want to prove or dis-prove this theory to your self- just check on the riders that do beat you in a race, how many do or don't have estart on their bikes?

 

[95jersey]

I lean the bike over until it spits a little gas from the overflow and then it starts right up.