Help 04 ec300 wont idle

N

nmhinton

New member
I just picked up an ec300. It starts fine with choke, but then as it gets warm I start to smell antifreeze and it won't idle any more (my thinking is that it's
hot and lean, but then again it may be rich?). What jetting should I have as a baseline for wisconsin in the summer? Under 1k elevation 80deg.
I don't have much 2stroke experience.
I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have.
 
Opinions on jetting vary. I found that optimal jetting is different between my '01 XC300 and my '06 EC300.

If you just want to buy a solution try the LTR jetting kit or the RB designs carb mod. With the LTR jetting it will require some fine tuning. The RB designs carb mod is pretty much install and ride.

If you like to jet it yourself, read the jetting database and the various posts in this section to get ideas on what works for different riders.
 
more info

OK guys, I checked out my setup...I'm running a 175mj, 40pj, #7 slide, fuel screw 3 turns out. I'm running 40:1 premix ratio.The bike smokes like a chimney and doesn't want to idle when warm. When I run the carb out of gas, the rpms run really high. It seems to me that would indicate richness, but the PJ seems smaller than what most are running. I'm confused. Anyone else have ideas? Thanks.
 
Smell antifreeze - hasn't got a blown head gasket has it? Are you losing coolant?
Is that smoke really steam? :eek:

Good Luck with it.

I just picked up an 07 EC300 myself. Must say I'm impressed.
 
gg300

Guys, thanks for your help. I'm now suspecting head or base gasket issues (maybe a very slight leak.) Coolant level was definitely down when I got the bike. I also remember getting a black, thin fluid coming out of what I thought was the crankcase breather tube, which I thought was just excess oil, but I had just put in fresh synthetic and it didn't seem like the right consistency. There is a lot of spooge coming out of the pipe, but that might be normal (I'm pretty new around 2 strokes.) My oil was not milky when I changed it, so I don't see water getting into the tranny oil, but maybe into the combustion chamber? What's the best course of action? Pull the head? Cylinder? Both? Will I be able to tell if a gasket is bad? I'm sure that would affect how the engine idles, right? Will I need to do Piston and ring at the same time? Thanks for your help again.
 
I always start with the simple stuff before going through the chore of tearing it down.

The coolant level in the radiator needs to be just above the tubes with adequate expansion space or it will overflow coolant. Since you don't have coolant in the transmission that is a good sign.

Do you have oil in the coolant? Do you have visible evidence of leakage out of the cylinder/head? If not, then your gaskets are probably good.

The symptoms you describe sound like it is jetted too rich. Since you have not posted what neeedle you have, it is not possible to adequately diagnose your jetting setup. Getting the right slide, needle, pilot, main jet combo will make a huge difference in prerformance and how much spooge and gunk come out of the pipe and vent hose.

I would first start with getting it jetted right as it will likely solve many of your issues and it is much less work than a top end rebuild.
 
Eric K said:
I always start with the simple stuff before going through the chore of tearing it down.

The coolant level in the radiator needs to be just above the tubes with adequate expansion space or it will overflow coolant. Since you don't have coolant in the transmission that is a good sign.

Do you have oil in the coolant? Do you have visible evidence of leakage out of the cylinder/head? If not, then your gaskets are probably good.

The symptoms you describe sound like it is jetted too rich. Since you have not posted what neeedle you have, it is not possible to adequately diagnose your jetting setup. Getting the right slide, needle, pilot, main jet combo will make a huge difference in prerformance and how much spooge and gunk come out of the pipe and vent hose.

I would first start with getting it jetted right as it will likely solve many of your issues and it is much less work than a top end rebuild.
Click to expand...

It would be hard to get the jetting right if there is a blown head gasket. He would be chasing his tail so to speak. I'd certainly suggest the need too resolve where the coolant loss is occuring first.

If there is loss of coolant, then its going somewhere. Spend more time to determine a correct diagnosis before changing jetting. Incorrect jetting shouldn't give off the rather distinctive sweet smell of coolant burning.

It sounds very possible to me, that one of the water jackets could be seeping coolant into the combustion chamber. It would make sense to me that a bike with a blown head gasket won't idle properly.

The mention of coolant in the oil, makes me think head gasket rather than base gasket.

If you do end up stripping it down I would be budgeting towards a new piston & rings while you're in there.

Cheers.



Further thoughts, a bike that is jetted too rich won't run as hot as a bike that is running too lean. This should exclude the jetting theory related to coolant loss for now.
 
gg300

Guys, good thoughts. So, how do I determine which needle I have? I pulled mine and didn't see any markings. Did I miss something? I am on the road until tuesday, so I will have to wait until then to do any more diagnostics on the bike. I first want to determine if the coolant is really leaving the system, and where it is going. I did not notice any kind of leak from the cylinder, so I"m not sure what's going on. I played a bunch with both the air screw and idle adjust, but didn't really notice much (any) difference in the rpms. It would not idle. Am I correct in assuming that idle adjust clockwise is richer and air screw clockwise is leaner? Thanks,
nate
 
Nate,

The fact that the airscrew has no effect on the idle indicates your jetting is suspect. There may be other issues. However, I like to start with the simple checks. Without markings on the needle it is difficult to determine what you have unless you take precise measurements. Taking precise measurements is often more trouble than just buying a known needle. If it were my GasGas, I would install a CCK needle, clip 3. A needle costs $6-$7.

Fill the coolant level properly (just over the top of the radiator cooling tubes) and then see if you get an coolant overflow. If it is overflowing, I would first check the radiator cap and then check the water pump impeller (which is easy to do). I had a stock impeller erode almost completely. I replaced it with an LTR impeller.
 
While your at it, pick up a 42 and a 45 pilot jet. My 300 would not idle properly until I richened the pilot. If you needle does not have any markings, there is a chance that it is a LTR needle, but who knows?
 
follow up

ok guys,
I ran the bike today. The antifreeze I was smelling is coming out the radiator overflow tube and dripping on the exhaust. It started really dripping fast when the bike got hot. The coolant seems slightly oily, but I'm not sure it's too out of the ordinary. The bike is still smoking a lot. It runs a bit rough off idle but then comes on strong. There don't appear to be leaks from the head.
I also picked up a 45 pilot jet to see if that would fix my idle problem. It did not.
My thoughts are: a) bad rad cap b) head gasket bad
Should I be worried about a warped head?
Should I still get another needle? Someone said CCK. Is there a number or something with that? What else should I order?
 
nmhinton said:
ok guys,
I ran the bike today. The antifreeze I was smelling is coming out the radiator overflow tube and dripping on the exhaust. It started really dripping fast when the bike got hot. The coolant seems slightly oily, but I'm not sure it's too out of the ordinary. The bike is still smoking a lot. It runs a bit rough off idle but then comes on strong. There don't appear to be leaks from the head.
I also picked up a 45 pilot jet to see if that would fix my idle problem. It did not.
My thoughts are: a) bad rad cap b) head gasket bad
Should I be worried about a warped head?
Should I still get another needle? Someone said CCK. Is there a number or something with that? What else should I order?
Click to expand...

Perhaps get it pressure tested, if you can't do it yourself.
 
What is your coolant level cold? You need room for the coolant to expand or it will overflow even if the engine is not overheating. I fill the coolant so it just covers the top of the cooling tubes.

Next, I would get your rad cap pressure tested or buy a new one.

If the coolant is oily, you may have a bad waterpump seal.

If it still spits out coolant with proper coolant level and a good radiator cap, then check the water pump impeller.

The needle can significantly affect the idle. My friend bought a '01 XC300 that ran very rich and would not idle with the stock needle and a 38 pilot jet. I put in a CCK needle and right away he said "now it idles". It made a big improvement on his 0 to 1/2 throttle performance. You should be able to buy the needle from most MC parts stores. If not, you can buy them on-line. http://www.sudco.com/vol33/135-136.pdf
 
I would pull the carb and check the condition of the reeds. While the carb is off give it a SUPER good cleaning, make note of all the jets and settings and check the float height level very closely and probably install a new float needle while your in there. If the float level is wrong the bike can run like crap. Same with the reeds.

Another poster suggested to check the water pump impeller. Do this as it sounds like the bike might be overheating. An impeller thats blown away wont get the fluid moving and cause the overheating and spewing anti freeze.

What kind of oil are you using. Some just smoke like crazy (Golden Spectro for example)

Check the condition of the packing material in you silencer and repack anyway. Badly saturated packing and clogged holes in the perforated tube can also cause problems.

Take a magnifying glass or something to check the needle for markings. Any real Keihin needle will be marked. If there are rerally no marks it must be an LTR needle I guess (RB-Designs?)

You may have a wet side crank seal that's bad and you'll just be chasing your tail until that's resolved. Check the other stuff first though, all pretty easy to do.


Skidad
 
resolved

Guys, thanks again for all your help. I hate it when people don't post the resolutions to their issues, so here it is...I pulled the unidentified needle that was in the carb and bought a cck. The needles looked identical, but after putting in the new one, they sure didn't act identical! From idle to half throttle, the bike now has excellent response. From half to full throttle, hang on!!!:) I'm attributing my coolant issues to overfilling the rad. I ran all day with the coolant just over the fins and I'm still at the same level.
My first real ride on this bike and I'm super impressed...it was at a mx track with my kids and it handled all my short/long/nose-high/nose-low landings in stride. I've never really ridden a two stroke before, so the powerband did cause me to nearly loop out on the face of a jump a couple times...boy, is that scary! Otherwise, you gotta love the light weight and handling. Lack of engine braking still has me tentative around corners, but I think I'm really gonna love this bike. I appreciate all the help again!
 
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