Let me know if I'm waaay off on any of this.

barkeater

barkeater

New member
I know there are others with more knowledge than myself. I'm smart enough to know I'm not that smart.:rolleyes:

I have attempted to simplify (if that is possible) the relation between EC, XC, MC, SE and FSE for people. Before I post this to the Gas Gas wiki page, I want to run it past all of you first. Let's edit it here before I plaster it on the wiki page.

Edited to reflect changes in thread. 12/22/07


To start, a quick primer on Gas Gas off-road model indicators:
EC – Euducross: 2 stroke enduro motorcycle 125, 200, 250 and 300cc
XC – Cross Country: 2 stroke enduro motorcycle customized for US racing 125, 200, 250 and 300cc
SE – Special Edition: 2 stroke enduro motorcycle, custom built for specific rider requirement in US racing 125, 200, 250 and 300cc
MC or MX – Motocross: 2 stroke motocross motorcycle 125 and 250cc
DE – Dealer Edition: 2 stroke enduro motorcycle customized for the US market 200, 250 and 300cc
FSE or FSR – Four Stroke Engine or Four Stroke Racing: 4 stroke, fuel injected enduro motorcycle 400, 450 and 515cc

Gas Gas started selling bikes in the US when Dale Malasek of Gas Gas USA began importing trials and enduro bikes into the US. Gas Gas parts were handled by Rising Sun Imports.
Click to expand...
Prior to this, the brand was only available in Europe.

In 1999, Don Knight at Gas Gas North America (GGNA) took over import and distribution of the enduro bikes (trials line was retained by Gas Gas USA) and building a dealer network from their headquarters in Cleveland, Mississippi. GGNA started customizing the EC model for the US racing market. The EC was built to European Union standards to be street legal in Europe and was loaded with features that were unnecessary for off road racing in the US, like turn signals and switch, speedometer/odometer/clock, mirrors, horn and button, catalytic converter, brake lights and head lights. The EC also had a heavier flywheel for the tighter European riding conditions in the form of a larger output coil for brighter headlight.

The XC was originally based on the 1999 European EC. Stripped down for racing, the XC eliminated the turn signals, horn, speedometer/odometer/clock, and all related wiring and cables. It kept the EC headlight and brake light. It had no handlebar switch for lighting or horn, only a kill button. The headlight toggle switch was located on the back of the headlight assembly. The XC was similar to the Gas Gas MC (motocross), only at the time the MC models had a 4 speed transmission which did not have proper gearing for enduro and hare scrambles racing. MC’s were also not available in the 200 or 300cc displacements. The EC/XC models were available in 125, 200, 250 and 300cc displacements. (Prior to 1999 the MC was known as the MX.)

Gas Gas North America had FMF custom design “Fatty” pipes for the XC, silencer choices included FMF Turbine Core II with USFS spark arrestor or the FMF Power Core, without spark arrestor, as options. The XC also had a higher compression MC head (claimed 14:1 compared to the EC 12:1), smaller flywheel weight for the relatively open terrain in the US and smaller output coil. It also had the same Kokusan CDI ignition as the MC which had a more aggressive timing advance for a quicker hit of power than the EC. The bikes were custom built for GGNA at the Gas Gas factory in Spain in a special manufacturing run each year.

During the same time period, GGNA produced the XCO, which upgraded the EC and XC standard 43mm WP forks to 46mm Ohlins forks. They also produced the SE model, which were custom built XC models. The SE could be ordered with full 46mm Ohlins fork and Ohlins shock, gold anodized D.I.D. Dirt Star U-line rims, Enduro Engineering hand guards, WER steering damper and custom suspension set up specific to the riders specifications.

GGNA imported the XC into the US market along side the EC and MC from 1999 until the factory took over distribution in 2002, transferring exclusive distribution rights in the US to Gas Gas Motors of America (GGMA) half way through the 2002 model year.

 When Gas Gas Motors of America took over import and distribution from GGNA in 2002, they eliminated the XC model and began importing only the European spec EC and MC models. The US EC models were not imported with signal lamps or mirrors included. During the transition, some of the EC’s were equipped with FMF “Fatty” pipes and silencers and some with Gas Gas branded pipes and silencers. MC models were equipped with Messico pipes and Gas Gas brand silencers. Dealers were upset with loss of the popular XC and petitioned GGMA for a return of the model. High production costs prevented Gas Gas from building the custom XC models so a compromise was reached when the factory agreed to leave off items from the European EC as it was imported into the US.

The EC “Dealer Edition” was created by Gas Gas Motors of America early in the 2003 model year in response to the elimination of the US exclusive XC models created by Gas Gas North America for NETRA enduro and hare scrambles racing. The DE was created with US dealer input, hence the designation “Dealer Edition” or DE. Dealers had the option to add optional parts and accessories to the model as they, or the customer, desired. The EC “Dealer Edtion” or DE included many of the features of the EC – it had FMF “Fatty” and Turbine Core II exhaust, Michelin S-12 tires, D.I.D. U-line rims, signal lamps or mirrors, choice of 43mm WP or 46mm Ohlins fork, O-ring chain, Ohlins shock, six speed transmission, Chromoly nickel plated frame (until 2004 when they began powdercoating), oversize spokes, hydraulic clutch, and Boyesen reed valves. Beginning in 2004, the WP forks were dropped in favor of forks from Marzocchi and the Ohlins fork option remained as an upgrade.

DE specific changes included: simplified wiring harness without turn signal or horn wiring, two button handlebar switch – headlight and kill button, smaller flywheel and smaller output coil, no speedometer/odometer/clock – the cable was installed however, and MC ignition.

Options for dealers to install included: Dual sport lighting kit, MC front number plate, trial style tail light, taller seat foam, Hebo taper bars, high compression head, 4, 7, 10 or 14 oz flywheel weight, programmable MC ignition for 125, 250 or 300cc.

GGMA imported the DE, MC and FSE from 2003 through 2006 as the primary base motorcycles and the European EC available through special order. The FSE was the fuel injected four stroke model Gas Gas had been developing since 1999. In 2002,2003 they began importing the FSE400 later to become the FSE450. In 2006, the FSE was made available in 2 displacements, the 450 and 515. Both fuel injected and based on the EC models.

In 2006, Barrett Marketing/Dixie Sales took over importing and distribution rights from GGMA. The Gas Gas factory and Dixie sales eliminated the DE model for 2006 importing the only the EC, MC and FSE/FSR models. The FSE was changed to FSR in 2007. Also in 2007, some EC models were equipped with a Sachs shock and some with Ohlins.

Dixie Sales import rights were short lived and ended when the company was purchased by Freeplay early in 2007. Freeplay did not see off-road motorcycles as a fit with their environmentally conscious marketing plan, so the line was dropped. This left Gas Gas without a distribution point in North America. After a scramble to find a distributor capable of servicing the US market, the current Gas Gas trials importer, and original importer, Gas Gas USA of Kansas City, MO was chosen to import and distribute the enduro bikes in the US market. Enduro parts and warranty service was given to GoFasters powersports of Ortonville, MN. Trials parts are still handled by Rising Sun Imports.

At the time this was written, the EC, MC and FSR were the only Gas Gas enduro motorcycle models available in the North American (US/Canada) market for the 2007 and 2008 model year.
Click to expand...
 
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The write-up is very GGNA-centric and not completely accurate...

The enduro bikes were first imported into the U.S. by Dale Malasek of GasGas USA - with parts handled by Rising Sun Imports... Today -> Dale Malasek is importing the enduro bikes again with parts being handled by gofasters...

jeff
 
:) That's what I wanted! Thank you.

I came to Gas Gas in 2001 as a dealer, during GGNA, and left when Dixie took over, so most of my knowledge lies in that time period.

Editing to reflect that.

Thanks Jeff
 
You did a very nice summary on the confusing history. :)
Here are some suggestions that you may want to incorporate.

EC – Endurocross or Enducross ???
Click to expand...

I've have heard both used. Not sure which is better.

The EC “Dealer Edition” was created by Gas Gas Motors of America early in the 2003 model year in response to the elimination of the US exclusive XC models created by Gas Gas North America for NETRA enduro and hare scrambles racing. The DE was created with US dealer input, hence the designation “Dealer Edition” or DE.
Click to expand...

This paragraph seems out of place. It would be better later since the 2003 date was mentioned. I would suggest breaking the following paragraph into two paragraphs. Then, begin this 2003 DE discussion.

When Gas Gas Motors of America took over import and distribution from GGNA in 2002, they eliminated the XC model and began importing only the European spec EC and MC models. The US EC models were not imported with signal lamps or mirrors included. During the transition, some of the EC’s were equipped with FMF “Fatty” pipes and silencers and some with Gas Gas branded pipes and silencers. MC models were equipped with Messico pipes and Gas Gas brand silencers. Dealers were upset with loss of the popular XC and petitioned GGMA for a return of the model. High production costs prevented Gas Gas from building the custom XC models so a compromise was reached when the factory agreed to leave off items from the European EC as it was imported into the US.
Click to expand...

Here is where I would divide the paragraph and insert the 2003 information

The EC “Dealer Edition” was created by Gas Gas Motors of America early in the 2003 model year in response to the elimination of the US exclusive XC models created by Gas Gas North America for NETRA enduro and hare scrambles racing. The DE was created with US dealer input, hence the designation “Dealer Edition” or DE. Dealers had the option to add optional parts and accessories to the model as they, or the customer, desired. The EC “Dealer Edtion” or DE included many of the features of the EC – it had FMF “Fatty” and Turbine Core II exhaust, Michelin S-12 tires, D.I.D. U-line rims, signal lamps or mirrors, choice of 43mm WP or 46mm Ohlins fork, O-ring chain, Ohlins shock, six speed transmission, Chromoly nickel plated frame, oversize spokes, hydraulic clutch, and Boyesen reed valves. Beginning in 2004, the WP forks were dropped in favor of forks from Marzocchi and the Ohlins fork option remained as an upgrade.
Click to expand...

For 2007 and 2008, the EC, MC and FSR were the only Gas Gas enduro motorcycle models available in the North American (US/Canada) market.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the DE might be imported again in 2008. We will have to wait and see.
 
good writeup.

The fourstrokes are actually EC's too, called EC450 FSE/FSR.

FSE = Four Stroke Engine
 
Thanks guys! Our collective knowledge is much better than my limited brain capacity.

I will be editing all these recommendations into the document and posting it to the wikipedia page soon.
 
In earlier years (99?), Both an EC and an XC model were imported and the differences between them was greater than most note today. The EC was a euro street legal trail oriented bike with a counterbalancer installed in the motor and a heavier ignition. - this is the hump that used to exist in the cases. It still had marzocchi conventional forks and a less expensive ohlins shock. (similar to what we see in the 450 pampera today). Note that during this time period, the difference in exhaust was that a messico pipe was installed on the EC models (same pipe was used on the MC and EC during these years...).

In 2000 forward, the difference between a european EC and an XC wasn't as great. GasGas, like the rest of the industry, went away from conventional forks and installed the better ohlins shock standard. They went away from the counterbalancer to achieve smoothness in the motor and installed a concentric weight on the crankshaft instead. This achieved lower vibration, relative to a non-counterbalanced motor, and decreased weight. But,in a way, they targeted the model towards racing versus being an extremely effective trailbike (you could view the original marzocchi forked ec with counterbalanced motor being like a 2 stroke XR...).

After gasgas switched to 43mm usd forks on the ECs in 2000 - an XC actually costs less to produce than an EC (cheaper ignition, no lights, less wiring, etc.). An FMF fatty pipe, although more durable and providing more low end power actually costs less than the messico that it replaced (and didn't perform as well either...). Note that a catalytic converter etc was never used during the years in question.

GGNA charged higher prices for bike "customization" & parts and GasGas motors america dropped both bike and parts prices when they took over importation. Given basic economics, the drop in prices should have led to higher sales. The president of GasGas Motors America, Juan Romero, had financial and legal expertise but initially lacked motorcycle industry experience. He was brought in to turn around the american market financially given that GGNA wasn't able to live up to financial obligations (a nice way of saying they didn't pay their bills to gasgas corporate). GG Motors America had large expenditures to set up warehousing & hire a full staff in florida. During this same period - the dollar was falling more than 30% relative to the euro - decreasing profit back to GasGas Corporate... Also, the new 450 4 stroke, was having some serious "teething problems"... All of this led to the budget for effective advertising and promotion (sponsoring a few top riders, etc.) being very tight and the sales volume fell. A few talented and enthusiastic sales reps became disillusioned and left during this period, which didn't help matters...

In 2006, Coller capital management acquired 36% equity in gasgas and put in place new management, streamlined costs etc. In the process, gasgas eliminated their direct rep in florida and closed the warehouse, etc. and went with Dixie Sales, who was also importing husaberg. Dixie sales lost import rights for husaberg this year. That along with the motorcycle division being less profitable than others in their portfolio (they also distribute everything from lawn mowers to philips TVs) drove them to get out of the motorcycle business completely. That leads us to today - where GasGas USA picked up enduro bike importation into the u.s. and Gofasters is handling parts imports, distribution, and marketing.

Other technical notes :
The higher compression MC head was only used on the xc250 model as no equivalent part is available for other models - 200 and 300, etc...

jeff
 
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'98 was the last year for the CB. The '99s had the full round crank weight in place of the gear, and the cranks were said to be balanced very well. In '00 you could get either an EC or an XC, but ECs were fewer. In '01, only XCs were available. The round crank weight was changed to an eccentric for even better balance and less vibration. In '03 when GGMA started up, the full EC was available at first, shortly followed by the new DE.
 
Hey Glenn,
I think that in '99 the euro ECs still had counterbalancers and GGNA imported a few of these... The local bike "newspaper" had a test on both bikes that year (xc and ec...). This led me to wanting a counter-balanced EC...

jeff
 
Also, I don't think all this stuff belongs up on a page on wikipedia... Putting on my marketing hat for gasgas, we should focus on what they offer today and the benefits, etc. A new, prospective buyer, shouldn't be exposed to all the change of importation over the years, etc...

I think we should break this up into the evolution of the bikes, here in the U.S. and elsewhere. And then a seperate article on the importation of gasgas in the u.s., etc.. (although both are somewhat inter-twined...)

I have wiki software up and running so that all can contribute to this website - I think the stuff going up on wikipedia should be something that the guy at gasgas corp marketing would put up there today....

jeff
 
Well, unless anyone else has an argument against Jeffs idea, I'll lay down the hatchet and let the grindstone come to a halt on this for a while.

I do think this is something potential new Gas Gas owners want to know more about. For a new guy looking at a bike, the XC, EC, DE (since the graphics say EC) and MC thing can be very confusing. As a new buyer, if you get confused by what model you're looking at buying - what about when something breaks? Most new dealers don't even have a clue about the differences. I think that thought process might have a direct effect on used bike sales and the poor resale on Gassers. If more people knew the history like some of us do, they might be more willing to pick up a used DE or XC or whatever.
 
Hi Todd,
Please don't take offense...

I totally agree with you that it is important to document and help others understand both the U.S. bike differences and the history behind it, etc... I am just not so sure all of it belongs on wikipedia - which is a very public and global resource. I was in engineering, marketing and am now a consultant (electronic design). My background in marketing keeps me thinking about initial impressions, and feature/benefit, etc - I would think it would be better to put the high level history/features/benefits of gasgas products on wikipedia (in a way I wished gasgas would). Then lead them to the gasgas corporate site and this site for more detail if they are interested.

Along those lines, gasgas does a very poor job of putting together a marketing "message" and differentiating their product. The press releases and product introductions are so poorly written (in spanglish) that they can barely be understood. The biggest marketing asset they have is guys like you that love the product and try to get the word out...

One thing that this situation illustrates to me is that it is important for us to get the gasgas wiki up and running. I think you can see that it is very beneficial for motivated guys like yourself to be able to write down the important stuff. And I don't believe it belongs at the top of a forum somewhere as a "sticky" - it ends up getting buried...

You and others can look at what matt has done thus far with the gasgas wiki page - it can be found here...

www.gasgasrider.org/wiki

You can see that you can add your knowledge everywhere and anywhere using this medium - it is exactly the same software that is used for wikipedia.

The difference between what we have now, with static articles on the main website that never get updated, is that the articles can be updated and embellished by others. In addition, the crossover parts list and the aftermarket parts listing could also become more "live" - the aftermarket parts listing could become listed as a "wiki hard parts catalog"....

And if anyone wants to thank me for loading up the wiki software - don't... Instead - thank Matt - he pushed me to do it when I really didn't want to. At the time, I was pretty burned out from getting the rest of the site together.

Oh, and one more thing, I registered the domain names gasgaswiki.com and gasgaswiki.org and will make these directly link to Matt's gasgas wiki page...

One more benefit to adding the material to the local gasgas wiki is that I can add banner advertising to the wiki pages - this doesn't benefit me at all, I lose money on this deal. What it does do is allow us to provide visibility for the gasgas dealers & distributors. It helps to illustrate the strength of the dealer network and availability of aftermarket parts with the vendor ads.

jeff
aka webmaster
gasgas riders club
 
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Hi Todd,

I just took another look at the wikipedia page and it looks *so* much better now.

Again, I hope you don't take offense to my comments in my posts above...

jeff
 
No offense taken. If if didn't want input, I would have just put it on the wiki page.

Yes, I agree. That was my initial thought. Wiki for dripping wet new guys, GG spain or GG USA site for those more serious, and this page for the sad, pathetic lot like ourselves.

I'm not worried about the marketing in the US, Dale has done a great job marketing the uber-niche trials product here and I'm sure between him and GoFasters, we should see things change in the US. Steve at GoFasters has a little madison avenue in him.

BTW, I believe TFTim was helping with the GG wikipedia page as well.
 
The paypal account sound like a good idea. A donation of 10 bucks from a number of members would see that the webmaster does not loose any money directly.
Also possible a donation register of sorts, not sure about this but it would keep things quite transparent.

This board takes the mystery out of owning a small brand bike and gets you up and running real fast.

Kim
 
I'd like to see the history from the beginning, not just the U.S. side of it.

I don't know where I got this information, but I heard the very first GG enduro bikes i the early 1990's were rebadged Husqvarnas. Man, I'd sure like to get my hands on one of those. Then one with the TM engine, and of course the first true GG. While I'm dreaming, I want Paul Edmonson's first GG.
 
95tt250.jpg
 
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