lowering 2004 ec 300

H

houndog

New member
Hey guys, I'm not that smart but I know where to go to ask about my babies!

Is it possible to lower the seat height on my ec300? My wife can handle the "power" and she can start it but it is 2-3 inches too tall for her short legs. She can not balance it because she can not have a toe on the ground with the bike vertical. With her CRF230F (her favorite of all time) she could tip toe the bike when it was dead vertical. I need to lower the GG 3 inches. Is this even possible? She'll only be riding dirt roads and trails and pavement, nothing "technical" :) She just needs to be able to touch the ground with the bike dead vertical. If it's possible it will save me from buying another 230F :) Lowering link, dropping forks in clamps.....whatever!
Thanks guys!
Ed
ps.... Jakobi, once again I have listened......bought all seals and parts to do my forks right, will get to it!
 
A Kouba link will lower the bike ~1 3/8" and dropping the rear tire size to something like 100/90/18 will lower the bike about another 7/8" (assuming it has the stock size 140/80/18 on it now) If you need more than that you can always cut the seat foam down a little. More still? Time to send out the forks/ shock and have them internally shortened.
 
Good work houndog!

As above, few things you can do. Lowering links change the leverage on the shock so can introduce a few issues, but for general riding on dirt roads probably not an issue. Softening the preload to introduce more sag may work too, but again gives up handling traits that you would want. Internal adjustments to fork and shock will keep the balance/chasis behaviour but will also reduce available travel as a whole. Shaving the seat comes at the expense of comfort.

How does she go for clearance if she slides one leg over the seat and uses the other to touch the ground. With my bum on the seat I can't touch well, but when I stop I just slide over and plant one foot and the other side kind of rests over the seat. Doesn't always work when caught off balance.
 
lowering methods

Some years ago I had the same situation -- my wife could not touch the ground with the GG 300 vertical. We first tried the lowering links and raised the forks in the triple clamps. That helped about an inch or so. Did not try lower profile tires or shaving the seat, those would help I think, in terms of lowering the bike.

One related "fact" to deal with is rider weight. Ofter shorter riders weigh less than the weight the stock fork and shock springs are set up for. So even if one lowers the bike sufficiently, there is the problem of whether the fork and shock springs are correct for lighter weight riders, so the suspension works right for them.

After a year or two, we took our forks and shock to a suspension tuner (Les at LTRacing, well known to this forum) with instructions to put the correct springs in the forks and shock, and "shorten" them to achieve a 1" seat height drop. This turned out to be a very good decision -- Les did a very good job, well worth the money, we could not be happier with his work. Only downside is the skid plate is lower, but that is a price one has to pay no matter what, so shorter riders can touch the ground. She is very satisfied, the suspension works great. Were I you, I'd send the forks and shock in to be lowered, but that's an individual choice.

Not sure you can shorten the forks and shock by 3". Maybe you can get 2" there (not sure), and another inch out by one of the other methods (tire profile, lowering link, raising forks in triple clamp, etc)? Good luck whatever you decide!
 
On a normal seat there is no foam to really pull out which will still make the seat something you can sit on. Kouba link and sliding to fork tubs did it for my wife but I would like another inch off the height as well. Always tweaking the bike for the wife.
 
Thanks guys, I'm listening.

braddenning, while for some that would be a perfectly acceptable and probably not a bad thing, in my case, I've been married to her 35 years and known her since she was 80 in girl pounds and 12 years old. She's barely doubled her weight!

The thought of being re-trained by another strong woman terrifies me. She's kept me happy and I've kept her safe (always) and happy (sometimes) almost as if we married for life! I turned 58 Sun.


Keep in mind you could not wreck the handling of the GG and have it worse than a CRF :) so any compromises in handling are not an issue except I don't want to completely ruin it for me, I ride this bike well, I just want her to be able to ride it too.

Tire is 110/100 18. It is due for a new one, suggestions as to size?

I'm thinking based on the comments so far.....lowering link, forks up in clamps, setting it to sag as much as possible. She's maybe 165 in girl pounds.

Does this sound reasonable?
Thanks guys, I really appreciate the comments/suggestions!
Ed
 
Your 110/100/18 comes out to 26.7" tall. A 100/90/18 would be 25.1 for a difference of 1.6" overall and a loss in seat height of .8"... so still a worthwhile gain especially if you need a new tire anyway. The difference in traction will be negligible. It's not a real common size, but they are out there. 100/100/18 (25.9") is more common but would only lower the rear of the bike .4", 110/90/18 (25.8") would lower it .45"
 
J, thanks for the numbers! I took a chance and ordered a 120/80 18 before I saw your post, because it was cheap. How does this one come out? What is the formula you are using?
Thanks!
Ed
 
120/80/18 = 25.6" so you will end up 1/4" lower.

120 is the width in mm
80 is the ratio of sidewall vs tire width (80% of 120mm = 96mm)
18 is the rim size in inches

add (2) 96mm sidewalls together (192mm)
divide 192mm by 25.4 to convert into inches (7.56")
add 18" wheel and you get 25.56... obviously I've been rounding off.

The other thing to make note of is that different manufacturer's tire may have the same size printed on the sidewall, but they can still vary in actual height.
 
First number is tire width in millimeters. Second number is tire height based on percentage of the tire width. This is meant to give you an idea of the tire profile (as in looking at a "section view"). A low percentage is good indicator of reduced tire diameter. You have to multiply it out to see the effect.

Width = 120 mm
Height = 80% of 120 = .8 x 120 = 96 mm

For your lowering reqirements check the tire manufacturers websites for the actual tire diameter based on your rim size of 18". This is the easiest way to know what the real OD is.

EDIT: I need to type faster. TheLetterJ beat me to it.
 
Hey guys, thanks, I now remember that 2 same size tires may not be the actual same diameter!

I also forgot to mention that Helen can ride (and jump off :) )the tall bikes "OK"......her CRF230f was only 2 inches lower......but it had electric start. She can not kick start the tall bikes! So if I get hurt by chance she can not shut bike off to help for fear she may need to go for real help. We looked at an old IT 175. She liked it but was too tall to start it! She can start my 300 if I hold it up......she's that damn close!
Thanks again for all the suggestions and hey keep them coming, if the new info helps.........except no, I can't afford estart kit for the 300 :) although that would solve 95% of the problem!
Ed
ps.....94 degrees....waiting on paint to dry....450 calling my name.......
 
There should also be another option to lower on this bike. I'm 5"7", 165# and have a 2013 EC250. I also find Endro/MX bikes too tall in the woods/uneven terrain. My three previous bikes and this one I've had lowered by my local dealer. I think he can lower it circa 1.5" by cutting out something front and back in the suspension part of the frame. He also has to do something to the kick stand length so it is OK. In fact he keeps the spacers/parts he cuts out and puts them back in when I trade my bikes back in so they return to normal dimensions. Other than being a little lower to the ground (exactly what I need) everything seems to be A-OK otherwise.
 
You can gain a modest amount by trimming the foam, I have done many.
I trim the most closest to the tank to create a cradle to drop into when needing to get feet on the ground or when in trouble and dog paddling with your feet (or starting the bike). What is most important is to remove the flat top in this area and make round as possible so not to throw the legs out.
A long blade sharp knife will get you close. Use a punch to gage the depth of foam before you start cutting and I trace out lines with a marker first. Make many thin cuts so not to cut too deep. I finish smooth with a surform rasp or use a 2" disk on a air grinder. The mid section of the seat I let alone for more sitting comfort. The area I have trimmed I use quality duct tape and cover the surface wrapping around to the bottom of the plastic foam support and then re staple the seat and tape back in place. The tape helps smooth out the trim but the tension you will add when applying but also helps keep dirt and water from entering the now open exposed foam.
If you have a comfort (soft) foam like from EE installed you can forget about trimming the foam, you need the original hard as a board foam to trim / shape well.
Just get a second seat for when you want to ride it.
 
I think you have to ask how aggresive she rides also.Its fairly obvious she is a rider if you are putting her on the 300.If she rides hard though youll encounter some issues.Youll pick up some in sag,and spring swap if neccesary and as Jakobi pointed out you will add leverage on the spring with a link ,so you may get lucky and itll be a wash there.Youll pickup some by sliding the forks up in the clamps,but this is where you will run into problems.That will change the handling of the bike,very noticeably at speed.You would be better to get a little where you can everywhere and try not to upset the balance of the bike.Up some in the trips but not to the bars,work on fork oil levels and springs,thats some.Lowering link which you can make yourself on these if they are the same as the older ones,but not too much.Set sag and maybe spring swap if need be and youll pick up some.You can also play with
 
Hey guys, she's gonna just putt on the dirt roads and the back paved roads, handling is not an issue unless it is just plain dangerous! Both bikes are tagged. Looking for a CRF150R or 230/250F (with e-start) for "trail riding".

In the mean time....I got these nice Gas Gas and the only issue is the height on both.

OK, so today my buddy Mac stops by and we go for a couple rides and then it hits me.....I need to lower the 450 for her! And up her insurance policy!

As I rode the bikes it occurred to me that the slipper clutch and e-start are more beneficial than the weight is detrimental! The 450 weighs about the same as her old 230L. So, now the plan has changed!

I ordered the lowering links and both they and the 120/80 tire will fit the 450. My guess is the 120 new in the sand will be as good as the smooth 140 that is on it now.......Hell, the skinny tire on the 300 is fine.....

Anyway, the "new" plan is to lower the 450 as much as possible rather than the 300 with the idea the e-start and slipper clutch will be a "good thing" and unless the handling is really wrecked we might be able to ride the back roads in a few days!

If the 450 is still too high after the links and tires or if the tire is just wrong I'll revert to the original plan and try and lower the 300 enough.

Like I said, the power, the weight are no big deal, she's strong. It's only the height, she just can't swing her leg over them or touch the ground.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help......I'll be sure to let you guys know how this plays out. Mac says the lowering links will be good for me even if the "mission" is a fail.
Ed
 
Update!
Ok , got the lowering links and put the tire on. The 450 is lower, still too tall for her. Have not messed with back shock or raised fork tubes but I did go for a ride. The smaller tire does not seem to be a problem but like the old one when it was new it does seem to "push" the front end. I consider this good because it means to me it's getting plenty of traction and I expect the pushing to lessen as it wears.

I like the links and suspect I'll like them more as I fool with the suspension. Time will tell.

So, back to original plan! Try and set the 300 for her. I ordered another set of links and another tire (needed tires for both bikes) for the 300. I'm waaaaaay too lazy to swap the links between the bikes even though they will interchange. The initial feelings with the 450 and the links make me think I'll like them on the 300 even if Helen still can't ride it.
More as time goes on.........she's just so damn close.....it's killing me!
Ed
 
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