Metzler foam inserts

[roostafish]

I'm hoping to duplicate the exact tire/foam insert combo used at the ISDE and available through the tire program. Would someone who has done this post some info? Ideally I'd like to get a rear tire and insert to practice with. I'm finding that Michelin tires and inserts are pretty firm, and it's my understanding the the ISDE tires are softer, and the foam inserts are by Metzler, and could also be a different composition. This would give me a better feel for what I'm doing. Currently, I am struggling doing this in a timely manner. I'm tempted to take the rim lock out, but I know that's a bad idea.

Any tire names/numbers from the Metzler, and or info on the inserts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Berkyboy]

Most European WEC and ISDE riders run either 130 or 140 tires with the smallerst insert they can find usually a 120 so the tire runs flatter and has a bigger footprint to make up for the shorter FIM approved knobs.

To get even better performance a lot of the Europeans actually drill holes or cut away some of the insert to make it even softer.

http://berkyboy.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Mexico-WEC/8947564_hdTBG#594364047_fuAYN-A-LB

In may opinion Metzler has the best mousse available for purchase at any Six Days as they build them for the local conditions and also factor in the the amount of time the insert will be in storage before it is used so they will be soft yet they won't break down to fast.

If you are buying Michlein mousses from any American source you need to allow about 10 hours of ride time so that set has enough time to break in.

 

[roostafish]

Excellent info. THank you. I have searched, but have not been able to find the Metzler foam insert for sale. Though the smaller insert in the bigger tire will be a big help. I'm also not above drilling holes in the foams... Yikes! I like it though.

Today, I'm pretty happy with my Dunlop, it was super soft in comparison to the S12 and went right on. I can only hope the Metzler goes on as easily.

 

[Nick]

I've been running inserts for years and i dont use rimlocks. I've questioned a few ISDE guys why they use the rimlock and they didnt know, but admitted they fought it when changing tires. I'm sure there is a reason they use one but i havent found the answer.

 

[Berkyboy]

If you're on a budget, like most of us are, you are most likely going to try and make a mousse last as long as possible which translates into using a mousse that is to stiff in the beginning of its life and too soft in the end. Your objective being trying to get a couple months, or the better part of a season if your lucky, out of your mousse.

If I was riding a 250/300/450 I would start with a 140 tire with a 120 mousse in the beginning and then when the mousse starts to break down I'd go to a 130 tire when it gets to soft.

As far as the rim lock goes I don't think their necessary for the average rider especially in the begining of the life of your mousse.

Some important tips to remember about mousses.

Once you start using a mousse keep it moist with mousse lube when you're storing it. Also keep the mousse wrapped in a dark colored plastic bag and out of direct sunlight whenever possible. Also keep it stored a cool place. These three things are a most for storing a mousse effectively for a long time.

When possible don't park the bike for long periods of time with the weight of the bike on the tires. Use a center stand whenever possible. Also when transporting the bike on a trailer use a center stand and two sets of tie downs to keep the bike in place. The point here is the mousse will break down quicker where it is supporting all of the weight of the bike on one spot for a long time.

Mount a tubeless valve stem (with out the shrader valve in place) to the rim (where the tubes valve stem would've stuck out or the rim) so you can use compressed air to "seat" the tire to the rim. This is a must if you are going to try and go sans rimlock.

Don't use to much mousse lube. Use a brush (it's usually best to use a cheap throwawy foam brush about 1" to 1 1/2" wide) to paint the inside of the tire with lube. If the mousse is brand new you may want to lightly apply some lube to the mousse as well.

Don't use to much moussse lube as it's rookie mistake is to just glob it on and that makes the mousse to slippery it then has a tendancy to push out when you're trying to mount the tire and that adds a lot of frustration. What's to much, if there are gobs of lube left on the rim or where the rim and tire meet after you mount the tire you most likely used to much.

Another thing to keep in mind is that all of your suspension settings are going to be moot as the bike's suspension is no longer working with a resilient "bouncing" air filled tire. The bike will most likely feel "dead" when you hit sharp edger bumps like roots and rocks. This takes a while to figure out and time should be allotted to work out the new settings.

Good Luck

 

[roostafish]

Goldmine information. Thank you so much. Yes, I'm a rookie, I'm of the school that too much lube is almost enough, so, what a mess. I have been playing with TuBliss inserts. I love them for riding, but I'm not going to use them for the ISDE. I can change the tire really quickly, but I'm going to go with a tried and true system.

I love running 6 psi in the tires in the slop here locally. It's like cheating. Like a trials tire front and rear that work on clay too. The trials tire is like a bare rim on clay. Sorry, back on topic.

How many holes do you drill for a compliant feel in the mousse? The dead feel is very annoying to me, but I never played with the boingers. I'll ask Les for advice there.

 

[Berkyboy]

Drilling or cutting away some of the mousse is tricky as of course you can't go back once you remove to much so be careful.

I would suggest that you only use that technique to fine tune the mousse if it doesn't break in properly.

Personally I would recommend that you start with a 120 mousse in a 140 tire and see how it goes.

Also keep in mind that some brands of tires have different sidewall stiffnes which can make a big difference and actual volume available inside the carcus of the tire varies from brand to brand as well.

Good Luck

 

[roostafish]

Thanks Berkyboy for all the advice.

 

[gasgasman]

Great tips Berkyboy!!

I got a year's service out of my front mousse. The front tire looked like it was flat. Pulled the mousse out and it was about 2/3 the original size.
The rear is still going strong.

The key is to pull them out every 3 months and relube them.

 

[roostafish]

That's good to hear that a mousse will last that long. I only need them to last a few days though.

 

[SpeedyManiac]

For the ISDE on an E2 or E3 bike get a 140 tire and 140 mousse. No rimlock and keep the mousse lubed fairly well and you'll be just fine. Yes, the feel is a little weird for riding, but you can adapt. Tire changes are quick and easy with no headaches.

If you run a smaller mousse in a larger tire, use a rimlock. Having a rim spinning is not a fun way to race the ISDE.