More oil = less wear

[Eric K]

My data points with AmsOil...

At 50:1 ratio the top ring end gap increased 0.006" over 91 hours of ride time.
Compression was 195 psi at the start of this period and 198 psi at the end of this period.

At 38:1 ratio the top ring end gap increased 0.001" over 93 hours of ride time.
Compression was 188 psi at the start of this period and 204 psi at the end of this period.
Also note, early during this time period my water pump seal went bad and all the coolant went into the transmission, so the engine also experienced an overheat cycle.

 

[Fred1956]

Which Amsoil do you use?

 

[jostby]

Interesting notes, thanks.

I'm curious, did you use the same brand piston both times?
Did you change from "A" to "B" size or stick with the same piston size also?

I wish I had the drive to keep notes like this

 

[gasgasman]

Did you rejet for the different oil ratios?

More oil in the mixture leans out the fuel/air ratio.
So, in reality the motor was getting less oil.

 

[Eric K]

Which Amsoil do you use?

Interceptor

Interesting notes, thanks.

I'm curious, did you use the same brand piston both times?
Did you change from "A" to "B" size or stick with the same piston size also?

I wish I had the drive to keep notes like this

First one was a Wiseco, second was a Vertex.

Same size piston.

Did you rejet for the different oil ratios?

More oil in the mixture leans out the fuel/air ratio.
So, in reality the motor was getting less oil.

I did not rejet since the engine ran fine. I can feel if I am off by one size on the pilot and a couple sizes on the main jet, which it was not.

I would like to see your math.

By my math, I am running 32% more oil per gallon of premix. Correspondingly, there is 0.6% less gas per gallon of premix, which has some small effect on the fuel/air ratio. There would also be some viscosity change, which maybe you have the formula for flow though a jet.

Taking it to the big picture level, I rode the same loops and get consistently the same fuel mileage. By my simple math, I am running about 1/3 more oil through the engine for a given ride.

 

[kendunn]

Did you rejet for the different oil ratios?

More oil in the mixture leans out the fuel/air ratio.
So, in reality the motor was getting less oil.

You would be getting slightly less gasoline, and that amount more in oil. This will lean out the bike just very slightly, probably less than the jetting would be able to correct (in other words if you went richer it would be more rich now than it was lean from adding more oil). I am not using Amsoil now because of the temperature problems with full synthetic, but spring I will be going back at 40:1. Right now I am using Lucas Semi at 32:1.

 

[jostby]

Did you rejet for the different oil ratios?

More oil in the mixture leans out the fuel/air ratio.
So, in reality the motor was getting less oil.

The fuel is less/oil is more to make a leaner "burn" ratio but there is more oil in the mixture which means more lubrication for the bottom end and cylinder wall

 

[skid jackson]

I am not using Amsoil now because of the temperature problems with full synthetic, but spring I will be going back at 40:1. Right now I am using Lucas Semi at 32:1.

I generally don't ride during the winter but ...
What are these tempeture problems that full synth has??

 

[kendunn]

I generally don't ride during the winter but ...
What are these tempeture problems that full synth has??

I have heard that full synthetic doesn't like to mix well when it gets below freezing. Not sure how true it is, but figure it wasn't worth chancing and the Lucas semi seems to be doing fine. Come to think of it, I wonder if snowmobiles run full synthetic? Or maybe they are injected?

 

[gasser]

I have heard that full synthetic doesn't like to mix well when it gets below freezing. Not sure how true it is, but figure it wasn't worth chancing and the Lucas semi seems to be doing fine. Come to think of it, I wonder if snowmobiles run full synthetic? Or maybe they are injected?

I don't know about the other synthetic oils but I've used all 4 of Amsoils 2 smoke oils and they mix and work fine at below freezing temps. I ride all winter long in Tennessee and a lot of our winter ride days start out below 30F.

 

[kendunn]

I don't know about the other synthetic oils but I've used all 4 of Amsoils 2 smoke oils and they mix and work fine at below freezing temps. I ride all winter long in Tennessee and a lot of our winter ride days start out below 30F.

I used to not worry about it either, until I saw this

http://www.gasgas.com/manuals/ec_user_05.pdf

Page 14 "Below 0 degrees Celsius do not use 100% synthetic oil"

Figured its not worth the chance.

 

[gasser]

I used to not worry about it either, until I saw this

http://www.gasgas.com/manuals/ec_user_05.pdf

Page 14 "Below 0 degrees Celsius do not use 100% synthetic oil"

Figured its not worth the chance.

Ken I appreciate your caution - it is better not to take chances with your engine that's why I only use the best 2 stroke oils and I use them as their maker intended (application,conditions, and mix ratios). All synthetic oils are different (different synthetic bases, different additives) and some may not be suitable for freezing weather but all of Amsoil's 2 stroke oils are recommended (except Dominator) for snowmobiles. Their Interceptor oil has undergone extensive long term testing in snowmobiles. Here is the link: http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/ait.aspx
I do not sell Amsoil products I use their oils because they work best for me and they are only $7-$9 a quart shipped to my door.

 

[kendunn]

Ken I appreciate your caution - it is better not to take chances with your engine that's why I only use the best 2 stroke oils and I use them as their maker intended (application,conditions, and mix ratios). All synthetic oils are different (different synthetic bases, different additives) and some may not be suitable for freezing weather but all of Amsoil's 2 stroke oils are recommended (except Dominator) for snowmobiles. Their Interceptor oil has undergone extensive long term testing in snowmobiles. Here is the link: http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/ait.aspx
I do not sell Amsoil products I use their oils because they work best for me and they are only $7-$9 a quart shipped to my door.

I just ordered a case of gallons of Interceptor for when the weather breaks, so I am a believer in Amsoil, too. The users guide also says to use all you mix that day, but I am sure we are all guilty of leaving a 1/4 tank of fuel in there for a week or two and then firing it up (ever week for me). A couple of my friends use Lucas all year and they haven't had any troubles, so I figured for winter I would just go ahead and use it.

I have a question about your area. Are you familiar with Virgin Falls? I have backpacked in there before and love it. Someone told me there is an old quad trail that goes right up to it as well, do you know anything about that?

 

[gasser]

I have a question about your area. Are you familiar with Virgin Falls? I have backpacked in there before and love it. Someone told me there is an old quad trail that goes right up to it as well, do you know anything about that?

I use to live 10 miles to the east of Virgin Falls and my son still lives near by. The last time I rode in that area I got arrested and took my case to court because the no vehicles sign was so small and so far up in the tree that no one saw it. I lost the case, paid court costs, and spent two days picking up garbage. Oh well, now I have something I never had before - a criminal record. My wife and riding buddies got a big kick out of it and still do every time the subject comes up so there is an upside. Here's a couple of links to Virgin Falls:
http://www.ncwaterfalls.com/vfpw1.htm http://www.lesjones.com/posts/000324.shtml

 

[kendunn]

I use to live 10 miles to the east of Virgin Falls and my son still lives near by. The last time I rode in that area I got arrested and took my case to court because the no vehicles sign was so small and so far up in the tree that no one saw it. I lost the case, paid court costs, and spent two days picking up garbage. Oh well, now I have something I never had before - a criminal record. My wife and riding buddies got a big kick out of it and still do every time the subject comes up so there is an upside. Here's a couple of links to Virgin Falls:
http://www.ncwaterfalls.com/vfpw1.htm http://www.lesjones.com/posts/000324.shtml

I believe I will pass!!! I want to go back again, but I will just backpack again. I would love to go there when its frozen, thats why I wanted to ride. I don't like to camp when its that cold, and to catch it frozen it needs to be pretty darn cold I am sure, especially with that water running out of the cave!

 

[sled_fiend]

I have heard that full synthetic doesn't like to mix well when it gets below freezing. Not sure how true it is, but figure it wasn't worth chancing and the Lucas semi seems to be doing fine. Come to think of it, I wonder if snowmobiles run full synthetic? Or maybe they are injected?

FYI, most 2 stoke snowmobiles are oil injected. I run amsoil interceptor in my sled but my brother runs Arctic Cat full synthetic in his. I'm guessing since the oil is injected into the intake port the engine heat allows for good mixture and dispersion of the oil. Not sure about other makes but Arctic Cat oil pumps are set up for 50:1.

 

[Nick]

Always ran Spectro full synthetic in the 2 strokes without any failures and rode and raced when it was in the teens.