My dream gas gas
- Thread starter bigtoe
- Start date
Fred1956
New member
I think they already do....but not sure it's ever coming to the US. The Cami has a nice price point but isn't the typical race bike. What engine is in the Xtrainer?
Jacob 'Berg
Member
300 two-stroke.
desertgasser300
Banned
Why build a de-tuned 300cc, why not just put in a 200cc? I ran into some Beta racers/dealer from Nevada at this weekends GP. They are having a hard time selling Betas in the desert, despite the rave reviews. They are nice bikes, but still as rare as jack-a-lopes here in the desert!
Jacob 'Berg
Member
I believe it is the same principle as the KTM Freeride 250 two stroke. Keep the larger displacement for torque and tune motor to make trials like power. The KTM Freeride eliminated the power valve all together, so that you get the trials like power but no top end or over-rev. Not sure if Beta ditched the power valve on the 300.
You need to come ride Bradshaws or MM with us some weekend!
desertgasser300
Banned
I think Beta kept the adjustable power valve and the de-tuning comes from a small 125ish looking pipe. Possibly other de-tunings that are not visible.
Was up in the Bradshaws last thursday. You gotta come down here and ride the single track, I can guarantee we will be the only people riding it! 20+ miles of technical virgin trail. Doug came and rode it last spring.
I have a ec300 and love it but I'm 54 years old now and don't have the need for the power band hit, but I like the torque of a 300 and the beta xtrainer has low seat height, only weighs 98 kgs ! the ktm freeride 250r 92 kgs, the cami 117 kgs , the pampera 120 kgs, come on gas gas you know you want to build one !
liv2day
Platinum Level Site Supporter
Did you guys see that Katoom finally brought the Freeride to the States? Back when I was riding my orange 300 and I first heard/read about the Freeride, I had a thread going on that forum about why it wasn't being brought over here - no one with knowledge ever answered (which was frustrating).
Personally, I see the Beta Xtrainer and Freeride as a perfect entry level bike (though lack of kick start on the Freeride is a bad choice IMO). I don't know the price point of either, but hopefully, the marketing folks did their homework and priced appropriately for the market.
Chilly has a good review of it on his site if you're interested in reading it: http://www.enduro360.com/2014/11/15/products-tested/2015-ktm-freeride-250-review/
If you look at the trend of motorcycle introductions for the past several years, you'll see a big surge in the smaller displacement street bikes. There's a reason for that - our overall sport needs to recruit new riders. I think this is even more important for our off-road segment as the environmental nuts continue to apply pressure to reduce our riding areas.
A well looked after used bike will still be the best bet for a new rider, but after they've cut their teeth, something along these lines is a no brainer step - especially if racing or competition isn't in the future plans.
Personally, I see the Beta Xtrainer and Freeride as a perfect entry level bike (though lack of kick start on the Freeride is a bad choice IMO). I don't know the price point of either, but hopefully, the marketing folks did their homework and priced appropriately for the market.
Chilly has a good review of it on his site if you're interested in reading it: http://www.enduro360.com/2014/11/15/products-tested/2015-ktm-freeride-250-review/
If you look at the trend of motorcycle introductions for the past several years, you'll see a big surge in the smaller displacement street bikes. There's a reason for that - our overall sport needs to recruit new riders. I think this is even more important for our off-road segment as the environmental nuts continue to apply pressure to reduce our riding areas.
A well looked after used bike will still be the best bet for a new rider, but after they've cut their teeth, something along these lines is a no brainer step - especially if racing or competition isn't in the future plans.
VxZeroKnots
Gold Level Site Supporter
Spot on. I think more importantly the market needs used freerides and xtrainers. Everyone I know started out on a 250f mx bike or 2t mx bike. There isnt a worse choice for a beginning trail rider, but all the entry level trail bikes available are about as exciting as a mid eighties honda civic. Affordable and exciting entry level trail bikes are key, I think ajp and the x trainer address that.
My interpretation is that the freeride is a hard enduro specialty bike in both price and performance. Its something the average joe can use to play graham jarvis. I could be wrong but I think many are miscategorizing its purpose.
My interpretation is that the freeride is a hard enduro specialty bike in both price and performance. Its something the average joe can use to play graham jarvis. I could be wrong but I think many are miscategorizing its purpose.
farmerj
Platinum Level Site Supporter
I don't get the comparison that I have been reading between the x-trainer and the Freeride. OK, yes I do - as live2day said, in terms of a bike that's good for beginners, they both fit that category. But the x-trainer appears to be an enduro that has been "stepped down" - the Freeride appears to be a trials bike that has been "stepped up." Those will give two very different riding experiences, I would think.
I just came off the mountain today, somewhat gnarly singletrack with fireroads in-between. It was tough to tackle those wet, rutted, rooted, rocky uphill singletrack trails with my enduro bike. You had to carry speed, and then a root or rock would put the front or back end in the air, traction lost, stall on hillside, then trying to get some momentum to get going again. Heavy. (Yes, a rider with more skill would get 'er done.)
Back to the trailer, pull out the GG TXT 321 trials bike. It is unbelievable, the traction and torque, go fast or slow up the same hill, it doesn't matter...let off the throttle, slow down, pick the speed back up halfway up the hill, just keeps going! Root or rock? Compliant suspension, drive over it or through it, who cares
I think the Freeride will be a "cheater bike" in its element. It's not the kind of bike you could take riding with your friends who are on "real" enduro bikes - they will be out ahead (at least until the tight gnarly singletrack trails show up.) But as a second bike, to go out and play-ride for an afternoon - torquing up hills and traversing over ledges and crossing logs - I am all over that! Sounds like fun to me!
So I see it as potentially a great "technical/tight/goat trail" bike. Hope I can ride one sometime!
I just came off the mountain today, somewhat gnarly singletrack with fireroads in-between. It was tough to tackle those wet, rutted, rooted, rocky uphill singletrack trails with my enduro bike. You had to carry speed, and then a root or rock would put the front or back end in the air, traction lost, stall on hillside, then trying to get some momentum to get going again. Heavy. (Yes, a rider with more skill would get 'er done.)
Back to the trailer, pull out the GG TXT 321 trials bike. It is unbelievable, the traction and torque, go fast or slow up the same hill, it doesn't matter...let off the throttle, slow down, pick the speed back up halfway up the hill, just keeps going! Root or rock? Compliant suspension, drive over it or through it, who cares
I think the Freeride will be a "cheater bike" in its element. It's not the kind of bike you could take riding with your friends who are on "real" enduro bikes - they will be out ahead (at least until the tight gnarly singletrack trails show up.) But as a second bike, to go out and play-ride for an afternoon - torquing up hills and traversing over ledges and crossing logs - I am all over that! Sounds like fun to me!
So I see it as potentially a great "technical/tight/goat trail" bike. Hope I can ride one sometime!
gasser
New member
I' m glad to see all this interest in these bikes that are aimed at "niche" markets. It seems that KTM, BETA, Sherco, and Ossa have very different ideas on how to fill the entry/ beginner enduro market niche. How do they add up? Well Sherco and Ossa copied what GasGas did with the 2stroke Pampera and made bikes that are essentially trials bikes with bigger tanks and a seat. They are much, much, smaller than the Beta x-trainer. The Beta x-trainer has a wheelbase that is only 1/2 inch shorter than my 2011ec 250 gasser. Seat height is 1.2 inches less than my gasser but so is the suspension travel. I am not knocking the Beta I would definitely consider the x-trainer if I was in the market for a new ride I am just pointing out that an older gasser could be transformed into something very close by just shortening the suspension and dropping a Suzuki needle in the carb. The KTM falls in between in both size and overall versatility. While the KTM is smaller and lighter than the Beta (several inches shorter wheelbase and @12 pounds lighter) it still has a 36 inch seat height which is still higher than many riders want. KTM obiviously feels that short people shouldn't ride bikes they simply won't make a bike with a seat height less than 36 inches. The freeride has a ground clearance of 15 inches. Does any other bike out there other than a Rokon Trailbreaker have that much ground clearance? In short the Sherco and Ossa are too much "trials" to make good beginner enduro bikes. The KTM freeride and Beta x-trainer are still a little tall for short riders. GasGas needs a new smaller frame for the 125/200 2strokes and could use it for a bike of this type. A bike with a wheelbase of 56-57 inches, seat height of 35 inches, and weight of 210 or less would be awesome.
I own a freeride 250r, I felt like just one of the sheep riding one of these orange bikes but at the time it was the only one of its kind which was more enduro orientated , its engine is based on the exc 250 enduro, and at my age I'm not as fit and strong as I once was, down here in Aus it's gets bloody hot so having such a light bike can be a real blessing, if you can't be bothered riding over that big log just lift it over ! like you say these bikes could be good for beginners but at the other end of the scale they could also extend us older riders trail riding days for another 5 years maybe? the freeride 250 is also $2000 cheaper than the exc 250 enduro
farmerj
Platinum Level Site Supporter
When I saw the Freeride, I honestly thought they were trying to make a bike that would be "King of the technical singletrack" and appeal to the rock-hopping crowd - but since they won't sell enough units in that niche market, then a focus on the entry-level rider to increase sales.
Probably kind of naive of me to think they'd throw all that R&D at mountain trail riders!
Probably kind of naive of me to think they'd throw all that R&D at mountain trail riders!
gasser
New member
All of these bikes mentioned above would be great to have as a second bike but would you consider any of them as your "only" bike to replace the one you are currently riding? That is one way that bike manufacturers look at new bikes. Another way they consider new bikes is do they fill a niche that is large enough to to capture a sales level that will make the company money in the long run. Sale of hybrid trials bikes won't do it in this country because trials isn't popular enough - never has been. By the same token entry level bikes that cost above a certain price point are also doomed. The perfect bike (from a sales point) will probably have to cover multiple niche markets. Slightly smaller bikes could fill a void between kids bikes and competition enduro bikes. Most grown women, all growing girls and boys (at some point in their life), and most older riders need a bike that is easier to throw a leg over. This slightly smaller bike market is dominated by the Jap big four but their offerings are cheaply made with poor suspension and very heavy weight. Seems to me that a slightly smaller lightweight enduro bike with quality components that sells less than 6k would be a hit with a lot of people looking for a new bike. Maybe the Beta x-trainer is enough smaller and enough cheaper to grab the brass ring of new bike sales but they did leave room for GasGas to jump in and take it away. How you may ask? Well how about a bike that grows with you. Adjustable subframe maybe. Extra longer springs (and shorter spacers) for the forks and shorter shock linkage to jack up the rear could grow the bike 1-2 inches as legs or riding confidence grows.
