N3EH/N3CH - Plug readings

[Jakobi]

Hi all,

I asked Swazi Matt this question

"Just a question about your jetting as I know our conditions are about the same. How is your plug colour and does your bike colour the plug all over or just one side?

Do you feel that you could run any leaner on the needle? I'm just tossing up if I should run N3EH#2 or N3CH#2. The later feels much crisper but both give quite lean plug readings on the exhaust side of the plug. Intake side they look really good."

I will try and follow with some pictures of each if I can get the macro function to work properly. Wouldn't mind hearing about others experiences with reading plugs and what methods work.

Reason I'm asking is that I have just tightened the squish from 2.6mm to 1.8mm and am re-assessing the jetting. It seems to have effected the needle by about half a clip. N3EH#2 now feels like the N3CH#2 did previously, but in saying this it feels best at N3CH#2. Strong and crisp but fearful of being lean.

 

[Bailey28]

I added in my combo 42, NOZH-1, 160 Biiiiiiiiggggg power everywhere, nearly crapped myself a few times!

 

[Jakobi]

I added in my combo 42, NOZH-1, 160 Biiiiiiiiggggg power everywhere, nearly crapped myself a few times!

N3CH#2 is perfect at the 1/4 throttle mark for me. Crisp and resposive. Then I think it tapers off and is too lean from half throttle up. The bike pulls really strong but plugs indicate its running too hot. Dropping the clip fixes up the lean hole but introduces the burble at 1/4 throttle. I think that I might need to step up on the main to keep things cooler up top but first I will try out the N1EG I have here. Its one size richer on the diameter than a H, and half a clip leaner than the NOZ series. Will run it in pos 2 to start which should be similiar to NOZH#1.5.. I'll run with a 175 main to start with.

 

[Bailey28]

I am running 32:1 Yamalube for my premix, with pump gas.

I do like how the NOZH pulls from the very bottom, and it is smooth, the smoothest of all of the needles I have tried. This thing will lug down to zero, and still pull the front wheel off the ground.

The N3EH that I bought worked well, but was a little too lean in the midrange causing a sag that I posted about earlier. My powervalve may still be a bit loose, but going to the NOZH really pepped up the engine on a whole. I think I was a little too lean on the very bottom before and went hella rich in the part throttle area.

Now, my bike is richer at idle/just off idle, and leans out gradually as the throttle opens up. The 160 is downright scary when it comes on the main. I felt I could get away with this because of the rich 3rd taper of the NOZ series.

 

[Jakobi]

I take it the JD graph (second attachment) doesn't take into account the 3rd taper then, as it shows you're approx 12% leaner at WOT than the base setup..

Everyone I know here using the N1E/NOZ needles use a 172/175. I agree I think I am falling a tad lean somewhere part throttle between 1/4 and 1/2 and then richens up once on the main. If I can get something thats still the same same at 1/4 and then richens a bit should be ace.

Sigh.. Very much looking forward to finding a setup and just staying with it..

 

[Bailey28]

Check this out: N1EF-1 compared to a NOZH-1......

The second chart may look scary, it is 15% down at WOT on fuel from the stock 40 N1EF-1 175 setup. But in our very hot weather it runs perfect.

The chart shows it is richer at idle, but the bike idles great like this and responds instantly and is very crisp. I get no pipe knocks, bangs, or loading up. I can play as long as I want in the slow stuff and as soon as I come out, bang! it takes off like a rocket.

In cooler weather, I will bump the main up to 165 and lower the clip to 2 or 3 and see how it does.

Right now, my spark plug is actually a bit dark but the outer ring and the base of the electrode are clean.

 

[Jakobi]

Everything I have read about N3CH and N3EH is that they are the same except for half a clips difference. JDs spreadsheet however plots them completely different.. It thinks the N3CH follows the same tapers as the NOZ series. It thinks the N3EG does too! This is doing my head in. Does yours plot the same as this Bailey or has your new and improved version fixed this up?

Frustration big time! Need to get this sorted in the next day. You'd expect N3CH#2 and N3EH#1.5 to plot directly over eachother. Not the case at all. Seat of the pants N3CH#2 is much much crisper than N3EH#2 particularly at 1/4 throttle. Wonder if trying N3EH#1 would be worth while. I ran N3EG#1 for quite some time which was a bit rich off idle and ripped arms everywhere else.

 

[Bailey28]

Just by running the N3EH-1.5 vs the N3CH-2 alone they do line up and overlap exactly on my JD chart. It looks like the chart you bought doesn't like the N3 needles.

I have a later version, perhaps you could contact JD and see if you can get an update at no charge?

 

[Jakobi]

Thanks for that Bailey and yeah mines an older version.. I don't mind paying for the new copy from JD its just a pain that you pay electronically then have to wait to have it shipped to the states. I always consider buying it at the moment I need it. In a week from now I'll be back at not needing it Thanks for confirming that info!

 

[NSE.ONE]

Jak,
FYI

Scotty has recomended and given me a N1EF to try with my new engine setup.

I cant comment yet as still a few days from finishing it. Might help you though.

 

[rod]

I don't know jake personally but it's obvious he's pedantic/fussy and likes to fiddle with his bike. He's searching for that near perfect jetting, as we all are, and i like the fact he's sharing his findings with us.

The N1EF needle appears very versatile for GG as they've been fitting them for years as std equipment to OZ shipped bikes. My 2010 nambo landed with N1EF on top clip and a/s 3 1/4 turns out (lean/lean). It ran really strong, way better than my '05 which also came std with N1EF, but their is no room for adjustment because it's already topped out, if you know what i mean.

I hold Scotties in high regard, they are my 1st port of call when i need parts or advice, but i don't think best jetting will be found with the N1EF, maybe just safest needle jetting.

Anyhow, it makes interesting reading what others are experimenting with.

Just for the record, i'm running 40/cek #2/178, as 1 1/2 to 2 1/2.
It actually runs strongly and idles well but is very thirsty, only around 70-75km to a full tank.

 

[Jakobi]

Thanks.. I ran the N1EG on clip #2 and it was that fat the plug turned black and spooged out its asspipe.. This was with a 38 Pilot and 175 Main. It actually pulled half alright once you got through the sea of burbling smoke in the lower 1/4 throttle.

I'm back where I started with the 38 N3CH#2 and 178M. There is a noticable difference between N3EH#2 to N3CH#2. Both pull clean but the CH has higher pitched sound to the exhaust note and rips alot harder. The EH pulls through but much slower waiting to get to the leaner point where it takes off. EH would be much easier to handle in the slop, but I like that the CH has more snap off idle and 1/4 throttle. Much more willing to pick the front end up.

Took the bike for a squirt today with a used plug and it didnt come out white. Did single 200M pull on brand new plugs at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and WOT. All had no colour on the plug itself as expected with such a short run. All had the small black band deep down the plug center. Wish the pipe wouldnt vibe so much. Even with new orings and high temp sealant it gets the occassional vibe up. Confirmed vibe and not ping but pushing it out with my boot.. Bikes eh!!

You'll be stoked with your setup NSE. I would personally fire it up on your current jetting and feel the difference. My research indicates that tightening the squish will make more fuel available that was once hiding under the band, thus causing the engine to run richer. N1EF is a richer needle all over, and my bike barely ran with it at all when first delivered. Smokey, oily, burbly, and on the top clip!

 

[NSE.ONE]

Jeez man i cant get my head around all this. You put a hell of alot of effort into it. Well done.

Anyway we're not set on what ill run jetting wise yet.
It ran 42 Pilot, N3EJ Middle clip, 178 Main and honestly i couldnt fault it.
I might ask Keg his opinion as well.

Daves got it back together now, im offshore tomorrow but on Friday we'll be doing some jetting runs.
Cant wait..

 

[Jakobi]

Too much effort.. Very happy with the results though Super keen to hear the ride report once you take it for a spin!

 

[Jakobi]

Videos are up in the Pics and Video section. Shes strong and crisp right off idle and will still pull through to close to 10,000rpm. Have a looskee and lemme know what you thinks. I'm not touching anything anymore

 

[NSE.ONE]

I'm not touching anything anymore

Ahh i call bullsh#t on that one mate....

 

[Bailey28]

Ahh i call bullsh#t on that one mate....



Same here!

Don't worry, you're not the only one

 

[Jakobi]

No more no more!! Unless if I drop a size on the main.. Haha!