STIC Metering Blocks in Four Different GasGas Bikes

Zman

Platinum Level Site Supporter
In a previous thread I mentioned I had terrific results with the STIC metering block in my GG big bore 327. I am the main mechanic for our riding group of friends and children ages 17-19. I normally spend a too much time each trip tweaking the carbs for elevation and temperature. So in preparation for our Tennessee spring break trip this year, I installed the STIC metering blocks in four of our other GG bikes (125, 250x2 and a 300). I do not have a local place to ride but from some short test drives around my neighborhood and all four bikes showed improvements across the RPM range. When we got to Wind Rock in Oliver Springs, TN we did an easy first day of testing and tuning. Weather was about 65F/18C. The STIC kits came with 50 pilot jets, 190 Main jet and N3EJ needles.

EC300 2004 - High hour bike with a new piston, new cylinder plating, new reeds and squish set to 0.05"(1.27mm) the bike ran just "ok". It would do a 2nd gear wheelie and you needed to try to wheelie it in 3rd. No matter what we did the bike seemed to have chronic fueling problems, erratic idle and poor fuel mileage even with the NEDG needle. As we were installing the STIC we noticed the stock Keihin needle jet in the metering block was worn on one side so it had an egg-shaped hole. The STIC installation is quick and easy. It totally transformed this 300! It started much easier and idled perfect! It ran smooth at low rpms and in the midrange without all of the burbling and pinging it had before. It SCREAMED through the midrange and revved to new high rpms it never reached previously. The only jetting change we made was to richen the needle to address a transitional lean spot. The fuel mileage just about doubled. This was the single best and easiest change we ever made to this bike! The bike now easily wheelies in 4th gear and you can coax it up in 5th occasionally. It was bittersweet when my 19yr old godson wheelied off his brand new rear fender.

MC250 2004 ? This bike was fresh and ran great before the STIC so I was not sure what to expect because it honestly always ran so well. It started and idled well and ran like a nice strong 250. It was a lot of fun to ride. I was surprised to find that the STIC made it noticeably better across the board. It started even easier, idled great, ran cleaner throughout the power band and it revved to a noticeably higher rpm than ever before. I needed to tweak the jetting twice and ultimately ran the N3EJ needle in the richest clip setting to address a minor transitional lean spot. It feels very snappy for a 250 and it wheelies pretty easily in 4th which is a gear higher than before the STIC.

EC250 1998- I think this bike was somehow purchased and not ridden by the previous owners. It has very few miles on it so it is a very young 21yr old bike. �� I jetted it with a CCK needle 45 pilot and 178 main jet. It ran well but was not as dialed in as the MC250. Similar to the MC250, after the STIC installation, it needed the needle to be set all the way rich to address a lean transition but after that it starts, idles and runs fantastic across the rpm range and in all of conditions we rode in. The older GG 1998 GG bikes have a smaller fuel tanks and this bike sips fuel now!

Fuel Range- We have been running these trails for the last 8 years and we all noticed a big change in fuel range for the 250s, 300 and my 327. It is easily 20% higher than before the STIC. The 125 lost about 20% range but I know that is because we had to richen it up so much to fix the off idle bog.

Transitional fueling- after riding behind each of these bikes I noticed something very interesting and very different from the bikes previously. All of the bikes gave a small cloud of exhaust smoke under higher load conditions or during heavier acceleration conditions like going up steep hills. George Boswell, designer of the STIC, told me that the STIC is able to sense the change in engine load and compensates with a richer mixture. This acts like an accelerator pump function and made a huge difference as it would allow you to have a leaner light load jetting while still having a proper mixture under higher load conditions.

MC125 2001- This bike has been a big challenge since we purchased it. I thought it would be similar to our 2003 EC125 that had good low end and was easy to ride. Wow were we wrong! To make matters worse my 17yr old god-daughter rides the MC125 it like a 4 stroke trail bike. Despite countless hours of tuning it has been a problem since day one. The EC and MC have very different characteristics which are probably related to the porting and Messico pipe. The MC125 screams like a 125 mx bike should, but it not happy during transitional fueling at low rpms. It often bogs and dies at the base of hills. I rebuilt the engine top to bottom, cut the head to 0.04? (1mm) squish, increased the compression a lot (150psi to 200psi). To help compensate for the Messico pipe, I made a 3/8? 10mm spacer to extend the head pipe length. Prior to the STIC we had a PWK 35mm from an early KX125 and it ran better than the stock 38mm but it was still not as good as our EC125.

I mentioned our MC125 challenges to George Boswell and he told me he was having great luck with the STIC in 38mm PWKs on the 125 MX bikes so we tried one on the MC125. While it started more easily, idled cleaner and RIPS through the midrange and top end better than with the 35mm PWK, we had to do more work to fix the off idle / low rpm lean bog. Ultimately we richened the main jet to a 192 and richened the needle all the way. While this fixed the bog down low, the bike is running rich in other areas now and the fuel range dropped. I am confident I can fix this with a different needle with a smaller diameter off idle section but we did not have one with us during the trip.

Needle Jet Wear - After some research I learned that the needle jet (the carb portion the needle rides in side of/touches when it goes up and down) wears larger and oval over time and that creates carburation problems as described in the below link. The extra wear in the needle jet reduces the vacuum signal to pull fuel and makes it difficult to properly jet the bike. https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1197062-pwk-38-worn-needle-jet/ FYI- Unfortunately that stock Keihin needle jet is not a replaceable item on that Keihin carb.

Summary- The STIC seems to do have several big benefits over the stock Keihin metering block. It seems to have a stronger fuel draw / signal and responds quickly to engine load changes. It richens automatically during increases in engine load so it does a better job of transitional fueling. It seems to do a better job of fuel atomization and runs much cleaner over the rpm range. It made a big difference in fuel range. The increase in overall power on all 4 bikes was noticeable and significant, but the biggest benefit was the better ridability and throttle response throughout the power band. I know this is going to sound like an advertisement, but honestly it has been the best mod I have found for the money and it is an easy installation.

I have to sort out the 125 and have some good ideas so if all goes well it will not take too long. I need to do some fine tuning on the 250s and 300 because I would like some ability to adjust the needle richer in cold weather. I may try the NEDG Suzuki needle like I am running in my GG 327. I have been talking with George Boswell (+1-715-479-7822) designer of the STIC and he is very knowledgeable and was super helpful in getting me the correct STIC version for our different bikes. George told me they are having good luck with larger main jets to address transitional fueling issues so that is another option to try.
 
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Nice report
Please let me know your result on the 125 when you’ve fixed it.


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I will report back but it maybe a little while before I get to play with the 125 with work travel and high school graduations.

We are running 93 pump gas in all of our bikes using a mix of Klotz R50 and Motorcycle Techniplate. I did not notice pinging on any of the bikes except for my 327 big bore which has 0.04" (1mm) squish and higher compression. Before the big bore kit, I it ported and cut the cylinder base for more low end / mid range power. This also helped correct the huge stock squish.

Before I installed the STIC, I advanced the ignition timing for more low end and midrange torque. After the STIC I reduced the pinging when I retarded back towards stock ignition timing. Additionally, I am pretty heavy at 250lbs with gear so this bike sees some load. 😉

While I know I can address this with more octane, I am pretty close with the current set up using the NEDG needle running 93 octane. The 327 only slightly pings now under heavy load, only when the dual map CDI is set for the sunshine advanced position. BTW- the bike has more power now in retarded / rainy day mode than it had previously without the STIC in advanced / sunny day mode.

I plan to try a richer main jet on the 327 and if that does not do it I will add a thicker base gasket to increase my squish to 0.05" (1.27mm).
 
Can you get a discount on them? How much are we looking at?

Should I even bother.. I get good fuel economy already and my 250 will lift the front wheel in 5th when on the pipe and in 6th with some body language and clutch input. 13-50 gearing.
 
I am not a dealer but I see on multiple web sites they are $349. On your side of the planet I would contact Tokyo-Offroad as they appear to be a dealer. https://www.tokyooffroad.com/product-category/stic/ They also have some great videos about the STIC.

It sounds like you have a great running bike! It is hard for me to say how much it will help your bike. I can say it was well worth it for all 5 bikes I put them in. I have one more to install in my other son's 2004 DE300. That 300 is also a great running bike so I will report back after I install it. It will be a few weeks before I get back in town to play with it.
 
I am running rb design carbs on 7 different gasgases real good luck I use a jd blue needle also was curious about the stick
 
There are claims on the Tokyo Offroad videos that the STIC does a better job of correcting for temperature and altitude, so we should spend less time rejetting. I have not jet verified that functionality but I will report back.

Needles - the STIC comes with the N3EJ but I think the NEDG was a better choice for my 327. I will try bigger main jets to see if I can drop the needles for the 250s and 125.
 
Zman I have 2- of bosewells carbs he molded a makuni back in 96 once you got them figured out they ripped
 
I have a $800 smart carb sitting in a box in my shed.. I like the concept of the STIC a lot more than SC/Lectron.. however for my area I don't really need temp/elevation correction. My jetting is pretty stable; I can ride year round with no changes required. I think the head setup helps a lot with that too.
 
If they weren't so damn expensive esp converted to Pacific Pesos :rolleyes: (NZ dollars) however I bought a very cheap 17 carb to replace my worn out 07. I am so happy with the RM needle.

The block would have helped here (Old carb) even it was as good as new let alone an improvement. I'd like to try the Stic but it's so cool now.

Maybe if I came I to some spare dollars needing a home. I could think of it as my contribution to making America grate again.
 
I am running a 192 main and the Suzuki 13383-37FJ0 NEDG needle. I think the pilot is a 50 or 52
 
Did you have a lean spot at around 1/3 to 1/2 throttle ? I have dropped clip to bottom position nearly got rid of it but not quite , have tried various needles but still end with pinking
 
Where do you have your air screw set? These work best with the screw set about 2.5 to 3 turns out. Make sure your float height is set correctly because that will change the overall jetting.

I would increase the pilot and main jet sizes. The designer of the STIC, George Boswell, told me that many KTM rider have are having good luck using larger main jets in the 195 to 200 range. I was told that the main jet overlap into the pilot jet throttle range (more than the stock Keihin) because it reduces the required draw and makes it easier for the carb to pull fuel at lower rpms. George said while it sounds odd, they run fine on top without being overly rich.

Our 125 had a similar problem being lean 1/4 to 1/3 throttle range. It was using the NEDJ needle (provided with the kit) raised to the top and I was able to correct the lean spot with a larger main jet and pilot jet. Ultimately I will probably use the NEDG needle in the 125 like I am using in my 327.
 
Newsletter #421

STIC designed it, miracle, stamp it.

? 1 The STIC inventor invented a new way to apply portions of the centrifuge process to separate the heavier hotter factions (parts) of the fuel from the lighter colder factions, (endothermic process) thus, leaving the colder factions behind in the central flow. It is important to note that the STIC process causes the central flow to have direction due to the STIC?s differential pressure drop; those details of directional flow will be provided later in this disclosure.

? 2 The STIC inventor then routed portions of the central flow?s outer peripheral into a separate chamber (outer connective cavity) to be processed by cooling and vaporizing these mixtures. These outer cavity flows, and forces are then thoroughly mixed (entrained) with the oxidizer (in this case ambient oxygen and nitrogen); this mixture is then subjected to a series of adiabatic expansion entrainment passages that now re-enters the central flows outer peripheral. These outer chamber flows and forces are vectored in the direction the central flows direction. Due to the central flows evacuation process within the central tube as it exits toward the main air flow; this effectively creates an evacuation void (vacuum) within the tube. As the central flow is continuous, this also creates a shearing vacuum at the points that connects the outer cavity with the central flow?s inner cavity. These connective adiabatic expansion passages progressively cool, mix, vaporize, and entrain the oxidizer (gas) with the hydrocarbon fuel (oil or other medium).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_y2FvH2DHE

In the case of the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) that is normally aspirated, the direction of flow is created by the engine?s piston displacement (suction of the piston down stroke, aka low-pressure), this directional flow may be created by gravity or pressure (or the prevailing atmospheric pressure) applied to the liquid surface flowing toward its intended direction.

The normal process of atmospheric pressure acting (higher pressure being applied) to the fuel surface area in the holding chamber (aka the float bowl) causes the fuel to flow toward the main air stream into the engine. The rate of flow toward the engine depends on a lower pressure created by the engine?s piston displacement during the intake stroke. In addition to the low pressure created by piston displacement, directional airspeed also plays a significant role in shearing pressure drops across the fuel outlets. Sounds pretty simple, however, the Internal Combustion Engine has other inherent (in-built) gremlins (glitches, problems) in the induction process that prevents this ideal scenario from happening as planned, thus, the differential pressure drop in a standard carburetor is mediocre (middle-of-the-road) at best.

Thorough detailed research by learned professors at State-of-the-art Universities, with scientist, engineers, and engine enthusiast over the last 100-years have discovered and revealed that the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) during cranking, starting, and running, is subjected to numerous mysterious fluctuating dynamics that make the ideal combustion, intake, and exhaust calculations somewhat incalculable (unpredictable). In fact, it has been well-established through continuous processes; that it requires a series of trial and errors to discover what will work under certain conditions. This is substantiated by the fact that today?s engines consists of a multitude of engine sensors that measure every conceivable engine condition, and very sophisticated computers and injectors to make the engines perform as well as they do. When they could not figure out how to time the injectors to enter the combustion chamber in 60,000ths of a second, they resorted to sequential injection. When that did not work as well as they had planned, they resorted to turbo/super charging to overcome the ever-fluctuating intake dynamics.

There you have it, what a dilemma facing one that designs fuel systems without the aid of sensors, electronics, catalytic converters, etc. Well, STIC did it. The STIC uniquely creates several things to in fact react to the various engine conditions. Through the many STIC features such as the ?Auto Sensing,? ?Auto Selection,? and ?Auto Acceleration? the STIC automatically reacts to the inherent conditions whether it is a two stroke of four stroke. STIC?s SSST (STIC Solid State Technology) calibrates in real time, it reacts to input. for dyno reports email at vortex@sticfuel.us or call 715-479-STIC (7842). Go Figure, eh! Cheers

http://www.sticsupertorque.com/
 
Newsletter #430

The STIC is an evaporative system that causes a high degree of vaporous air fuel mixture production, however, the STIC is no ordinary concept, it is a brand-new invention, a new technology. See patent number: US 10, 378, 484 B2:

? 1 The STIC enhanced the evaporative process by increasing the internal kinetic energy, exposing the air fuel mixtures to adiabatic vacuums.

? 2 The STIC is totally new; it increases the surface area of the air/fuel mixture by an enormousness amount, increasing the internal kinetic energy within the mixture, thus, bringing the molecules closer to the surface area to improve their vaporization. This is in addition to subjecting the mixtures to a series of progressive adiabatic expansion pressure drops, entrainment of the oxidizer into the fuel and subjecting the mixtures to step-by-step vacuums, and the escalation of the flow rate by making the air fuel vaporous mixture lighter and faster.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/bo...phase-changes/

Evaporation: ?? Evaporation is a phase transition from the liquid phase to the gas phase that occurs at temperatures below the boiling point at a given pressure. For molecules of a liquid to evaporate, they must be located near the surface; moving in the proper direction and have sufficient kinetic energy to overcome liquid-phase intermolecular forces?.?

? 3 See the description in the STIC issued patent; in how the STIC increase the vaporization by increasing the kinetic energy within the mixture by multiplying the surface area of the air/fuel mixture.

See patent number: US 10, 378, 484 B2:

Section 15: ?? The BNG Concept Causes a Violent Discharge of the Control Circuit(s). The NEW STIC BNG concept causes an explosive discharge of the designed BNG circuit/s and their contents; to violently move into their targeted destination; of which could include other circuits as well as the main air flow. In order to move a product and/or mixture (in this case various mixtures and combinations therein into a targeted circuit by differential pressure; one must consider the density and viscosity of the mass as well as the volume; the amount of mass to be moved.

A critical consideration in causing circuit discharge; is the comparative surface area of the communicating circuits. The diameter of the orifice (the tube) that the mix/mass is accelerating from; when trying to move it (in this case; fuel, air/fuel, vapor/pressure, and combinations therein); to its targeted destination; determines how fast the discharge is. 10 noted that the rotation flow here is depicted as clockwise, but by orienting the tangential vector passages to be tangential in the opposite manner, counterclockwise rotational flow can be achieved.

It should be noted that pressure exertion on the surface of a fuel well/circuit (in this case pounds per square inch, (psi)) is determined by the air/fuel surface area. Another factor in considering air/fuel (and its related components); movement, is the pressure drop (in this case the carburetor fuel circuit outlet) that it is exposed to a directional flow causing a pressure drop at the outlet of the communicating discharge circuit; it must be less than the pressure acting on the (cavity/passage) float bowl (in this case fuel bowl). The issue of transit time of pressure (in this case atmospheric pressure) through a liquid/verses air; is a fact that is well known by those familiar with the art of fuel system design. See Woody, U.S. Pat. No. 5,133,905; page: 9: "Although the transit time of a pressure wave in air and liquid is 35 different .... " In summation, the NEW STIC BNG needle jet concept makes vaporization, emulsification and circuit control movement more effective and predictable.

The NEW STIC BNG needle jet design overcomes the issues of poor vaporization, poor circuit activation, and poor mixture control. The STIC-BNG needle jet may stand alone in various stages of modification as a retrofit into all existing carburetion and injection and/or it can optionally be made into an ultimate structure; designed into a metering block; and/or incorporated into a new carburetor and/or fuel injection structure. ??

? 4 Go figure, eh! Cheers
 
OK


Recent background testing of the STIC Technology with the new STIC boost with and without the reed system.

Here are some preliminary pictures of the engine we tested at Husqvarna, Austria and Sweden with the new STIC boost system (no reeds). Zero Carbon Monoxide from 5,000 rpms to 11,000 rpms, 30% increase in HP. The STIC Boost system utilizes all of the residual pressures to effectively super charge the engine. This will be released this year 2021.

During 1985, the STIC system did not exist. However, Charles Fayette Taylor?s book: titled ?The Internal Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice? ― section: Carburetor Design and Emission control for Spark-Ignition Engines, recognizes and describes the missing carburetor link in single jet carburetors, [12]. Charles Fayette Taylor?s states: ??...The fuel-air ratio should vary as a function of the load under normal steady-running conditions. For the usual type of spark-ignition engine operating under given atmospheric conditions, the load is determined by particular values of any two of the following variables: 1) torque output, 2) speed, 3) throttle position, 4) of air flow, and 5) pressure in inlet manifold.? It is evident that the fuel-air ratio required is a unique function of air flow only at a given speed. The steady-state signal analysis varies drastically from dynamic signal analysis, especially for non-linear systems, [5]. Thus, except in constant-speed applications, an additional control, sensitive to at least one of the variables listed, must be provided if air flow is to be used as one controlling element?...? Figure 2. Example of a carburetor installation that has been modified with the STIC system.

This is precisely what the New STIC Metering Block system accomplishes, it reacts to the following, ".... 1): torque output, 2): speed, 3): throttle position, 4): of air flow, and 5): pressure in inlet manifold.? Hang on, part of it is already here in the STIC metering Block; the rest is about to arrive!

The Key to understanding new STIC discoveries.

Design Techniques for Engine Manifolds written by DE Winterbone and RJ Pearson under the heading: Future Development and Closing Remarks, address the need for the introduction of more complex gas laws, [14]. ??The application of multi-dimensional simulation techniques to unsteady flow and the simulation of transient performance of engines using wave action methods. Within section 7.1.1 General gas properties; they state the following: ?It was stated in some detail in Chapter 2 that the analytical methods for calculating unsteady flow have been restricted to perfect gases, viz. gases that obey the perfect gas law. The effect of this assumption is that changes in the properties can only be approximated by modifying the value of the ratio of specific heats, k. This approach has been used for many years in simulations based on the Method of Characteristics, where it was common to use different values of K in the inlet and exhaust manifolds. While this allows for the effect of different gas properties and temperatures on the speed of sound, it does not correctly model the manner by which energy is contained in the gas.? ?However, it is apparent that the different conditions will produce phasing changes in the waves in an engine, particularly those in the exhaust system. The effect of this will be to change the tuning speed of the waves in the pipes and this will affect the volumetric efficiency curve.?

Typical Results using the STIC technology Utilizing our natural resources and minimize waste is essential. Hence, a new approach to fuel injection and/or carburetor modification has been developed. This will enable an almost 100% burn of the fuel, [14]. This will lead to: (1): Increased horsepower and torque ? Hugely decreased emissions. 2): Decreased fuel consumption. (3): Lowering the exhaust temperature. (4): Lowering vibration levels. (5): Increased durability and life expectance of the engine. (6): Green and Sustainable concept! (7): Increased horsepower and torque since the fuel will be vaporized with better distribution, entrained with the oxygen, for a more total burn.

The STIC Metering block when applied to a stock engine will change the effective horsepower and torque since more of the energy within the fuel will be utilized. The empiric research data results presented, have been accomplished by certified independent external laboratories throughout the world.

This is evidenced in the following videos with the STIC installed into a stock YZ125X. Cheers

Dirt N Iron 2020 YZ 125 MX Track with STIC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9eNzk-5yq8&t=314s

Dirt N Iron 2020 YZ125 Trail with STIC (same Jetting as MX)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-0b57Lxyck&t=620s
 
I have a $800 smart carb sitting in a box in my shed.. I like the concept of the STIC a lot more than SC/Lectron.. however for my area I don't really need temp/elevation correction. My jetting is pretty stable; I can ride year round with no changes required. I think the head setup helps a lot with that too.

We will trade you heads up for a new Keihin A/S with the STIC Metering Block. STIC Headquarter
s
 
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