Need some help on 2 stroke of 4 stroke..

[Scar13]

So I know the debate, of 4 stroke vs 2 stroke and I am not trying to get that heated up... What I am trying to do is find out since I am on a GASGAS is there a difference of a 2 stroke honda vs a 2 stroke gasgas ec 250 2010?

I ask this as I only trail ride with friends and sometimes race in TORO or TCCRA. Every ride or race I am constantly barraged with you would be better off of a 450 4 stroke.. The power is smoother, there is no HIT, and so forth and so on..

I have only ridden/raced a 2004 gasgas 300 and a 2010 3c 250 gasgas..

I had thought I had read once that the gearing on the gasgas was spaced out more and rode like a 450 4 stroke??

THoughts?

If it helps I am 6'1 230...

 

[Jakobi]

There are a lot of variables to consider, but generally a 2T thats been set up for enduro is much more linear than an MX orientated bike.

Port timing, port sizes, ignition and timing, flywheel weight, and then you have gearbox differences too. A 2T thats orientated towards top end HP will be very different to one thats set up for usable power characteristics.

In saying that though, they still feel very different to a 450F. Verry different. They both have pro's and con's but I personally think a 450F would beat me up and wear me out much faster. The weight, the inertia, engine braking, and arm pulling torque everywhere can be a pain in the tight stuff, but also offers benefits in the open faster areas. Why not throw a leg over one of their bikes and see what you think?

In the end, in most tighter terrain, if racing, we'd all probably be hard to use a 250F to its fullest extent and turn fastest laps on one because of it. Less is often more, but if riding for fun, go with the bike that gives the biggest grin!

 

[john01]

I had a 450R Honda and it was fun in open fields, power lines and on the MX track. The FIRST time I took that thing into tight woods I was thinking, boy did I bring the wrong bike for this. It overheated and didn't like going slow at all. I added a Rekluse Pro, Water Weter, exhaust, and a re-jet. It all made it better but it was still a MX bike. My 2010 GG 300 could lugg or rip and was way way easier to ride when doing either. IMHO a 450F is best used by pro's which I am not. I couldn't imagine racing one through the woods !

 

[modette]

I trail ride and slab it to trails. 4-Stroke works the best for obvious reasons. It also doe snot need premix so a little easier to plan. I can tell with the GG there will be a little more planning (in time I hope to alleviate that if someone does a Safari big shrouded tank for the 2012+ models).

In CO, our trails are long and can be connected by roads, graded roads, and forest roads/trails. So loops are big. Trail riding is what I like, not to interested in going around a course with knowns, I like unknowns like trees being down or erosion changed the trail...its always different.

Wish I could give more, but I just picked up the bike today and with cold weather doubt I ride other then down the street...LOL Oh and I ride single track on my beast of a XR650R *shrug*

 

[twowheels]

The 250 or 300 will be a better off-road tool than the 450 MXers, and more race-worthy than a 450 off-roader.

is there a difference of a 2 stroke honda vs a 2 stroke gasgas ec 250 2010? Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

I ask this as I only trail ride with friends and sometimes race in TORO or TCCRA. Every ride or race I am constantly barraged with you would be better off of a 450 4 stroke.. The power is smoother, there is no HIT, and so forth and so on.. Maybe a 450X or WR450, but certainly not a MX bike

I have only ridden/raced a 2004 gasgas 300 and a 2010 3c 250 gasgas..

Not sure what a 3c 250 is, but it sounds like you've already experienced the GasGas power ...

I had thought I had read once that the gearing on the gasgas was spaced out more and rode like a 450 4 stroke?? Jakobi gave the text book answer, I'll just say that its the tool that was designed for the job ...

THoughts?

If it helps I am 6'1 230... There's more than enough juice, even in a 250

 

[roostafish]

Usually an off road specific bike, whether two, or four stroke is better for trails, but off road specific 450's are generally pigs.

450 MXers have tiny gas tanks and some have four speed transmissions. Yuck.

Hard to go wrong with a 250 or 300 for ultimate versatility. I've never thought premixing fuel was a big deal.

 

[twowheels]

I've not done it myself, but I've heard of guys riding trails with known gas, filling the tank from a pump and then adding a shot glass or two of oil to the tank. Somebody, somewhere even made a cool little chart to take in the tool bag to ensure the proper proportions.

 

[Jakobi]

I do it every week. Take my baby bottle with 210ml of oil in it. Pull up at the pump, turn the fuuel tap off, fill the tank to the nearest litre or half, calculate the oil, and top the tank off. Slosh it around some. No issues in 6000kms.

 

[Anders]

I've not done it myself, but I've heard of guys riding trails with known gas, filling the tank from a pump and then adding a shot glass or two of oil to the tank.

My wife has done it like that for 20+ years, touring Europe and commuting on her RD350YPVS. When new, it obviously had an oil tank and an oil pump, but those are long gone...



Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express

 

[Anders]

As for the two vs four debate, I feel that my ec200 is a good compromise with its oversize exhaust valve cover and fmf gnarly pipe. It doesn't hit like a MXer, quite linear and sufficient power for my use. Riding one of my sons' ec300s in the woods is just scaring, as would a 450F be. I am old and slow, so I neither want or am able to use that much power.

Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express

 

[GMP]

I've been down that 450F road and its a dead end for fun in the woods. They will tear you up from either weight, WAY too much power, or lack of ridability (overheating, starting, etc.) in the woods. A 250/300 2stroke is the benchmark and hard to beat. 250fs are fun but then you have the reliability/longevity issues on most of them to deal with.

When we ride the Hancock and Hammer Run dual sport trail rides each year, we take small plastic bottles with premeasured oil and mix at the gas station. I use translucent laboratory type bottles with marks for oil levels in .5 gal increments. Works great, much better than being on a 4stroke when the trail turns fun.

 

[rsteiger]

I currently have a 2001 XC250, 2003 KTM 450 EXC (plated), and a WR250R that I take off road. I don't consider myself a very aggressive rider, I just like to get out and ride the trails with some friends.

I picked up the GG about a month ago and have had it off road at Kentuck ORV Park in AL. I use to run the same trails on my KTM and I can tell you that the Gas Gas does not beat me up as much and is much easier to handle on the trails. The power seems to be setup pretty well for trail riding but I did miss the low end grunt of the 450 in a couple of spots. I suspect though that has to do more with me learning how to ride the GasGas than any issue with bike.

Earlier in the year I picked up my WR250R with the intent of setting it up for longer DS rides (350 watt Stator is a very nice feature). After spending a weekend up in the north GA mountains I was very pleased with the way the bike was setup and decided that I would sell the KTM. That is when one of my riding friends told me that I may want to pick up a 2T for my play bike for a number of reasons and recommended a GasGas - just so happen his XC 250 was for sale at a decent price. I rode it and was hooked.

So now the real problem. Last weekend I went in to cleanup and get the KTM ready to sell. Decided to take it on a little 30 mile DS ride which was a big mistake... came back realizing I cannot sell the bike.

So basically here is where I am at:

GG 250 - Trial riding and single track where there is no pavement or maybe very little pavement.

KTM 450 EXC - Weekend rides or rides where I am riding from a central location and coming back at night. No need to lug a lot of gear or need for heated gear. Bike is plated and street legal so no need to worry having to ride some pavement to piece together trails or riding FS roads all day.

WR250R - Long DS rides and rides in colder weather. TaT, TWAT, TeTS, etc.. Great bike that rides well and feels easier to handle than the KTM in tight stuff and can carry gear better. Down on power compared to the other two but that is not a big deal for me.

Just my $0.02

 

[Nick]

Depends on the type of race. Here in the desert the big 4stroke has some advantages. I have raced 125, 200, 250, 500 2st and 450 4st. My 450 Tracks through the rocks better than the 2st. The best results i have ever had have been on the 2 smallest bikes but i was younger then.

 

[Marc]

Scar13, I can probably help since we ride the same series. close to the same height but you have 30 pounds on me.

I have a ec300 and I also have a kx450f. Both are set up for the trees and I race and ride both.

The funnest to ride by far is the Gas Gas 2 stroke. Its power is so fun and it is abrupt but not violent like a MX 2 stroke is. So I call it my 3 stroke. I the light feel. I do not like the vibration of a 2 stroke. The KX is fun on Open stuff and jumps for sure. The 4 stroke for climbing hills. With a rekluse the power is so damn smooth on the KX.

Racing I choose the ec300 again. TORO you know its a little more technical with tighter trees, bigger hill climbs and extreme stuff. The light feel of the Gas Gas wins there. I even think I would prefer the Gasser for a TORN race since the pace is so fast. I think for TCCRA I would run the 4stroke. More open and they tend to be easier tracks. Also the 4 stroke is easier in the sand for me. I was more successful in TCCRA with the 4 stroke but way better in TORO on the 2 stroke. matter of fact I won at Bridgeport this last weekend.

Hope this helps,
Marc Haught
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