Rekluse advice sought

[iancp5]

I have a Rekluse I'd like to tune.

Is it possible to raise the engagement point just a little, maybe only 200 rpm whilst at the same time have it lock harder so it doesn't slip in the high gears under full load?

I find it starts to engage too early but slips too long in the higher gears.

At the moment it has the L2 spring and 1 washer. I think it has 5 Tungsten balls but they all seem magnetic and I thought TC wasn't. I have an empty packet of TC balls and 5 magnetic ones left in the box?? The plates are not worn and the gap is within spec. Reading the manual it seems raising the engagement point increases slip which doesn't help me.

 

[dave948]

All the balls will be slightly "sticky" to the magnet but I can't pick my Ti ones up with a magnet.

More Ti will decrease lock up RPM while less spring will decrease engagement RPM and vise versa.

You can get very different feels from different oil as well. Some oils really make it slip more than others. Try shell rotella and make sure your plates are in good shape with no glazing.

 

[iancp5]

All the balls will be slightly "sticky" to the magnet but I can't pick my Ti ones up with a magnet.

More Ti will decrease lock up RPM while less spring will decrease engagement RPM and vise versa.

You can get very different feels from different oil as well. Some oils really make it slip more than others. Try shell rotella and make sure your plates are in good shape with no glazing.

Thanks.
Ah ok so the TC balls are less magnetic but still magnetic. My magnet was picking them up but some did seem more attracted than others.

Good I was hoping for that, so I should add a 2nd shim to the spring and another 5 TC balls. That hopefully will raise the engagement rpm but the clutch will lock quickly after that?

I'm using ATF III oil. I know Rekluse recommend Rotella but you never see it in the UK. Probably sell it under a different name but what? The plates looked ok with no glazing.

 

[AZRickD]

Slight thread hijack...

I went to the Maxxis Enduro Cross Finals in Las Vegas two weeks ago. It was easy to tell which riders were competing with the Rekluse and which were not. Those poor 4-strokers who stalled in the rocks were often kicking for tens of precious seconds -- or more.

The Rekluse truck was there and I used the opportunity to look into whether the Rekluse Pro would be out for the Gas Gas anytime soon. The Rekluse guys said they had a Gas Gas clutch assembly on one of their benches for quite some time but it was a low priority to get one to market.

Naturally, they advised me to get the regular Z-Start and they would give me a great deal on a swap when (and if) the Pro comes out. I'm electing to sit it out for a while. Yeah, they gave me all the ins and outs of why the old Rekluse would suit me, given that the Gasser has a juice clutch. But they were not clear on how a standard Reklused bike's clutch "half-throw" lever engages vs the full functionality of the Pro model. I've also heard that the Pro requires less maintenance and adjustment.

 

[Eric K]

I have a Rekluse I'd like to tune.

Is it possible to raise the engagement point just a little, maybe only 200 rpm whilst at the same time have it lock harder so it doesn't slip in the high gears under full load?

I find it starts to engage too early but slips too long in the higher gears.

At the moment it has the L2 spring and 1 washer. I think it has 5 Tungsten balls but they all seem magnetic and I thought TC wasn't. I have an empty packet of TC balls and 5 magnetic ones left in the box?? The plates are not worn and the gap is within spec. Reading the manual it seems raising the engagement point increases slip which doesn't help me.

Add another 5 TC balls to increase the engagement force. Adding the TC balls will raise the engage point slightly.

I have tested raising and lowering the engagement point. The lower the engagement speed, the better the clutch works.

I have my EC300 Rekluse with 10 TC balls and just the L1 spring. It disengages nicely for a smooth 1100 RPM idle. It engages smoothly. It has just the right balance to climb the toughest of hills without excessive slip. The only time it gives me a bit too much slip is starting out from a complete stop on a steeper hill since the rear trials tire hooks up so well.

 

[iancp5]

For the Rekluse users I contacted Rekluse and their advice to achieve the effect I wanted was:-

Remove the preload washer from the wave spring and use an additional C150L4 spring inside the C200L2. That will raise the engagement point a little. Then add the additional 5 TC balls to make it engage quicker and harder after that. Also keep the gap down to 30 - 35 thou. I think the 10 TC balls is fairly unanimous so it might be a case of playing with springs. I suspect I need a higher engagement point than the EC300 as it's a lickle 200.

When the parts arrive and I get to test it in anger - I find only a race really tells you if its right or not - I will report back.

 

[Eric K]

Too high of an engagement RPM can result in a lot of clutch slip, heat and premature clutch wear.

Pulling out of tight low speed corners going up hill (steep mountain switchbacks) are what I have found to be the worst case slip for the Rekluse. Too high of an engagement speed just does not work well.

 

[iancp5]

Well it needs to be higher than it is at the moment because it either stalls when you select a gear or it crunches and pulls if you raise tickover high enough not to stall!

 

[Eric K]

For the Rekluse to work well, you need a consistent, low idle and a very low drag clutch.

A high idle to address poor low speed jetting does not work well with a Rekluse - I have been there and it did not work.

Addressing clutch drag and getting my jetting dialed in made a huge difference.

 

[gasIdaho]

I ride with many of the Rekluse guys in Boise and they've done a fair bit of tinkering with my bike for kicks. Eric K's set-up advice is spot-on. The most important thing I've learned from these guys is to continue to fan my clutch lever occasionally. This is most important for me when riding desert/sand conditions or coming out tight low speed corners going up hill. Give it a quick rpm bump and you get great engagement and keep abuse to a minimum. With the current state of economy it is unlikely we will ever see a pro-model for the Gasser's. I've ridden my friends KTM300XC with the Z-Start and the Pro Model and the difference is huge...most apparent on motocross and desert riding. The Z-start is more than capable for all other applications.

05' EC300
Rotella-T 5w-40

 

[iancp5]

Eric K,

Maybe we have a different definition of steady consistent idle. Over my 4 years of GG ownership I have played with various jetting including that specified by many people on here including the LTR setups. I have twiddled the idle and airscrews ad infinitum and I have never got what I consider a consistent idle. Even after a full rebuild. I admit I have not done RB carb mods, squish setups or tried different slides to standard. I have yet to come across someone in the UK with a more consistent idle on a GG. The best jetting for me has been Pobit's, the nearly as good came from a UK dealer and the LTR didn't work well at all for me. I am also running as much flywheel weight as possible without modding the cover. It has the EC flywheel + 10oz.

The GG idle just changes too much with engine temp. I can get it to idle for a while after a thrash but a minute later the rpm has changed quite significantly. If I set it to idle for a long time then when just blasted it's too high for a while. I also notice differences when the bike is pointing up or down a steep hill. Ok the hill stuff you'd expect with a carb. I don't have a clutch override so can't pull it in and blip. In UK timecard enduros it is not uncommon to need idle at funny angles and to have to wait at a check or for someone stuck at a technical bit to get sorted after coming off a fast bit. Sometimes the way round is worse - been caught out by my impatience a few times!

With regard to the clutch. I have set the gap as per Rekluse's advice for best operation and I run ATF fluid. It didn't have drag problems with a normal lever only type clutch. The problem with the Rekluse standard setup was it would start engagement too soon but then not lock up fast enough.

Maybe I am chasing Utopia because the only 2 stroke dirt bikes I've owned have been GG. Maybe I have it as good as it gets? Anyway it's livable if I keep a wary eye on things but I have to watch for stalling on hills and make minor adjustments to the throttle and similarly play the throttle when I have to stop for a short time. But when tired it's a pain having another thing to worry about. So if there's a way to raise engagement 200 rpm that will help as it'll be enough to allow some variation of idle without starting to pull. If the extra TC balls and minimum gap then allow hard enagement as soon as the revs rise it should be spot on.

But ... if it doesn't work I will be honest and say so.

I'm not moaning just trying to get things spot on and the idle thing bugs me because I tried all the jetting people on the forum said would fix it and it doesn't - that's on 2 different bikes. Maybe I've just had my expectations set too high by 4 strokes I've owned?

Ian.

 

[Eric K]

Ian,

It can very frustrating getting the jetting tuned on a GasGas. I have been there many times.

What is your best jetting so far and what are the conditions (temp, elevation, throttle opening) that cause the issues?

 

[iancp5]

Ian,

It can very frustrating getting the jetting tuned on a GasGas. I have been there many times.

What is your best jetting so far and what are the conditions (temp, elevation, throttle opening) that cause the issues?

Temp 0 - 30 (currently 0 - 10), Elevation 0 - 1000 max (usually 0 - 500). No issues with the jetting below except idle.

On the 300 the best I ended up with was #7 slide, 40p, 180m and CCK on 3

Now I have the 200 I'm currently on #6 slide, 42p, 178m and #N1EE on 2. I plan on trying a CCL once I have settled the Rekluse. Can't remember airscrew setting as I generally tweak it when warm to get the best idle. The 200 seems to idle a bit better than the 300 for some reason. That surprised me as it has same large carb but less signal.

I notice both bikes idle better when running out of fuel when the tap is turned off. I did try jetting the 300 down to 35p which idled better, not perfect, but eventually it seized while cruising on the road. Ran fine in tight woods where throttle was changing a lot but revs low. Suspect but hard to know for sure, sustained highish revs but small throttle on a road + a slight blockage in fuel tap pushed it over the edge. Hence I suspect they need to be leaner at idle but then richen up immediately the throttle is opened. Does that mean a different slide cutaway?

 

[Eric K]

From what you are describing, you may want to try a different slide. With the wrong slide, it can be very frustrating trying to get the idle to work correctly.

On my '01 300, I had to go to from #7 to a #8 slide to get the idle to work well.

My '06 600 works well with the #7 slide. It would not work correctly with a #8.