Tell me about Ducatis

[GMP]

I wandered in to the local Duc dealer that happened to be next to where my truck was getting serviced. Maybe a mistake. I could get an '08 Hypermotard for my Harley on trade plus a few bucks, good deal. Whats the story with the Duc desmo 1100 motor? The service costs are ridiculous and I would never consider the bike if I could not do the work myself. Doing the research the valve adjustments don't look that bad and I have a feeling that the dealers make this sound like VooDoo to command high service prices. How are the parts prices and availability? Could this be a reasonably practical(and fun) back road commuter bike? Light, very comfortable riding position for me, and I love VTwin low end power for the street.

 

[blitz11]

I like Ducatis. Philosophically, pretty close to GasGas. Not a new design every two years, but a refinement of a solid concept. Solid bikes.

I ride old BMWs, but work on anything. A friend of my wife's bought a new monster, and wrecked it the first week he had it. (High sided in a corner 'cause he went in too fast, panicked, and stood it up.) So, being the good guy I am, i fixed it for him. Parts didn't take long to get (a week maybe), and the bike was well designed. It was easy to fix. Most of the stuff we could bend back without breaking, meaning it isn't cast out of junk metal.

(That was 6 years ago. That guy still owes me lunch.)

And NOTHING sounds sweeter than a ducati...dry clutch rattling, beautiful exhaust note. My younger daughter, (who was 5 at the time) when we had the Duc while waiting for parts, would turn the key on, fire the bike up, and just listen to that Leo Vince carbon fibre exhaust.

Ducati, also like GasGas, uses high quality parts. You get what you pay for. If you want a back road burner, you'll like the bike. Just watch out for speeding tickets.

You'll dig this WAY more than the V-Rod. Good luck.

blitz

 

[Boomhauer]

Glenn,

Being a former Road Racer myself and riding one I can tell you that parts are expensive. Plus if you do have to have it serviced for some reason or another at the local shop it will cost twice as much as let's say a Suzuki GSXR or a Honda CBR.

The Duc's are good bikes and sound really good with the right pipes on their twin engines.

Good luck.
Robby

 

[skid jackson]

What about an older 749?? I'm seeing some 2000,2001 749's for what looks like short money 4 or 5k. I live 20 minutes from Loudon (NHIS) I used race an ex 500 there and was thinking an older cheap 749 might make a fun track bike. I'm wondering how much you could change the seating position/foot pegs/ bar height to get a more upright riding position. maybe make it a bit of a street fighter for running around town and then slap the racer stuff back on it for the odd track day.

 

[MattR]

Could this be a reasonably practical(and fun) back road commuter bike?

The Hypermotard would be a fun ride, but it's too much $ for my tastes. Someone else here just picked up a SM610 to answer that same question.

I've only had a few short rides since the snow just melted here. It's a blast to ride! Feels like I'm riding something illegal all the time.

Here is my new toy:

 

[GMP]

Thanks guys. I'm just kicking the idea around. Two years on the Night Rod proves its a nice bike but not the best commuter. Too much cosmetic maintanence and too little stick on the front end. Most of riding is to work and the occasional weekend day ride, no touring, and as little highway as possible. I always liked the Hyper, and the guy just shocked me when he offered a very good price on a trade. I'm not particularly interested in a Ducati because its a Ducati, I just like the Hyper. While the maintanence is eaisly within my skill level, he could not answer the question of voided warranty, because no one works on their own, from this dealer anyway. Sorry but $600 to $700 for a valve adjustment every 7500 miles is stupid, its either DIY or ride something else.

No sport bikes either. An agile, upright streetfighter/SM fits the bill for me. A very nice bike for 9K just out is the Aprilia Shiver 750. Very nice ergos, street fighter style but a bit more upright. Triumph Speed Triple is a nice bike as well. The KTMs are over priced and I've heard mixed reports on long term service.

Matt, the Husky is nice but I just think the single may a little too stressed for the times when I am on the highway.

 

[gasgasman]

Those high mount exhausts are a concern.
When you're done riding you will smell like exhaust fumes.

 

[skid jackson]

I've been thinking about a shiver. There is a prilla dealer next town over from me. gonna have to swing in and see if thye have one on the floor.

pegaso 650 factory is kind of sweet looking too!!

 

[rpduc]

I think they handle pretty good...

I have an '04 800 Monster and do all of my own maintenance. The 2 valvers are pretty easy to work on. Valve adjustments are pretty straight forward, but you do need either a shim set ($200+) or a nearby dealer who is willing to exchange shims.

The '06 and later 695,1000,1100 bikes have a semi closed loop EFI with a Lambda sensor in the exhaust and there are plenty of complaints about snatchy throttle response and surging due to lean fueling. The stock ECU has limited capacity to deal with that situation. It is not re-mappable. Many if not most end up with some kind of replacement ECU or an add-on module like a Power Commander or Rapid Bike to get a handle on fueling.

There was some talk of valve guide trouble on one of those motors, but I can't remember if it was the 1000 or the 1100. I know of several 800 motors that had valve guides go in under 10,000 miles, mine included, but that's the ONLY trouble I've had with it... mechanically. It does have an affinity for grass... and that gets expensive REAL quick on a Duc.

The issue of voiding the warranty doing your own maintenance comes up a lot here: http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/index.php/board,3.0.html as well as endless threads on ECUs, fueling. I think legally any mfg. has to prove that lack of or improper maintenance was the direct cause of a failure to deny a warranty claim. IME and from much I've read Ducati is very good about warranty work to the point of even extending "good will" coverage to bikes beyond warranty for known or obvious defects.

I've only taken a short jaunt on a Hyper, but it was a sweet ride.

 

[GMP]

I think lean EPA related fueling is a issue with all new bikes, although in the tests it was not a complaint with the Hyper. My VRSCD was very lean as well with a rough idle and low end surging. A $200 Teclusion made it a different bike, with no issues in 10K miles. I somewhat expect to have to do this on any new road bike. I don't really want a road bike for another hobby though, and will leave it basically stock. I just want something different and more unique than an SV650.

The valve train is a shim over bucket, like a Triumph triple or older DOHC Jap bike, so the shims are subject to wear and why swapping may not be popular with dealers, correct? Do dealers in general stock a selection of shims and sell individual parts willingly? Are there on-line sources/dealers?

I don't think you can get much worse than HD prices on parts. Hell, if my bike fell over in the garage it would probably be well over $1K!

The Shiver appears to be a very nice bike, with excellent reviews, and feels very comfy sitting on it. A lot like the Hyper. Probably a more sensible choice for me. If I have trouble selling the Rod for a good price the Hyper deal will become more attractive though. I wasn't even planning on a new road bike this year but $4 + a gallon on the horizon in a V8 truck(needed) sucks, and I have no room to park another car.

 

[Boomhauer]

Glenn,

Have you ever thought about a Sport Touring bike? Like the Suzuki Busa, Kawi ZX 1400, Honda Blackbird, Honda VFR.

I currently have a GSXR 750 but would love to have a sport touring bike as they are far more comfortable. You can easily use it for rides to work but on the other side you can still ride them on some twisty roads.

 

[rpduc]

O.k. so you know the travails of EFI.

The valve train is a shim over bucket, like a Triumph triple or older DOHC Jap bike, so the shims are subject to wear and why swapping may not be popular with dealers, correct?

I'm not sure what a shim over bucket is... It's a desmo valve train so there are two shims per valve, opener and closer and proper clearances are pretty critical. The opener might be called a "bucket" and the closer looks like a "hat" with a hole through it. I think the change in clearance over time is more from the valve pounding into the seat. Actually I don't think the shims wear all that much and worn ones can be used where one needs a thinner shim. It's pretty common practice to sand shims to achieve proper clearances. I think the swapping "issue" would be more due to it's a PIA kind of situation for dealers. We're lucky to have two VERY good Ducati Techs here in Minneapolis at Silverback Performance. They swap shims for a fee. (15 bucks per IIRC) I take in my shims with measured clearances and they measure them and swap them out for shims of proper thickness. You could measure and do the math yourself and chance ordering online but... the measurements don't always work out exactly so it would b a real pain to have to do this via online sales. A shim kit is really the way to go. It doesn't take long to make up the cost of the shim kit if it's going to cost you roughly 40 bucks for exchange.

Do dealers in general stock a selection of shims and sell individual parts willingly?

I guess I can't answer that one from FHE. I think so. I am spoiled by having Silverback Performance local. I know of Ducs (and Harleys) from all over, Chicago, Winnipeg, California etc. to have them tuned by Doug Lofgren or Fred Snyder.

Are there on-line sources/dealers?

Yes there are some excellent online dealers, both oem and aftermarket.
Many of them are sponsors at Ducatimonster.org.

Ducati Seattle, BCM in New Hampshire, AMS in Texas all get excellent reviews for oem parts. I suspect Hall's Cycles in Illinois would be excellent oem source too. I haven't ordered Duc parts from them but they had IN STOCK just about everything I needed to revive that old '91 Husky 610wxe and it needed some obscure stuff.

I haven't looked closely at or ridden a Shiver, but it looks like it's sporting some excellent components. Can't say I like the trends in styling... even the new 696 Monster is going that way... Sharp pointy angular... I must be getting old...

I was away from bikes for 20+ years and I picked the Monster for totally impractical reasons... it looked like a motorcycle and not some kind of 2 wheeled space ship, I've "always wanted" a Duc, it was comfortable, air cooled, fairly simple. I was just going to "putt" around on it anway... like a responsible adult...

Probably a more sensible choice for me.

Huh... that would probably be the reason I would end up wit the Duc. Have you ridden them both? That desmo drone is intoxicating...

 

[GMP]

rpduc,

I had a brain fart, was thinking about the Speed Triple motor whan I asked the shim over bucket question. I looked at and understand the desmo setup. How many miles can you expect out of the 1100 Duc motor, properly maintained of course? Thanks.

Robby,

I'm not really into the big plastic wrapped bikes, or inline fours for that matter. I like the simple naked bikes, and they would fit my use best. Also a lot of the "sport touring" bikes are classed as sport bikes for insurance. Not sure about the Hyper, some nakeds are classed as sport, some as standards, depending on the company. I have to get a quote for several bikes.

 

[3hunerd]

Hey Glenn,

The Shiver is awfully neat looking, though I don't like the view from the rear - the triangulated exhaust just looks weird - perhaps it is better in person. The other downside I could see is the drive by wire crap. I am not a fan of it, and find modulation of such contraptions annoyingly sensitive. Sounds like it is here to stay.

The Hypermotard is way cool, though what you're quoting for the maintenance would scare me away too. That new adventure type Moto Guzzi looks pretty cool, though I don't know a thing about those other than the drive train takes some getting used to.

Good luck - and have fun shopping!

 

[skid jackson]

I haven't looked closely at or ridden a Shiver, but it looks like it's sporting some excellent components. Can't say I like the trends in styling... even the new 696 Monster is going that way... Sharp pointy angular... I must be getting old...

...

It's called "facetized" sp? design. as in facets on a diamond.
you can thank the f 117 stealth fighter for it. thats where it comes from.
Cadillac picked up on it first
Bombardier just introduced a new line of Ski Doo sleds based on it.
Like you said ... seems to be the trend. I thought the rear end of the shiver looked kind of funky too
My other thought was an older Mille and strip it down to a home built Touono. I'm starting to see mille's around 5k!!
In the end I'll probably end up with a $4000 used bonny or drz 400 sm. Cheap bike ... no fussing around, get on it and ride.

 

[rpduc]

How many miles can you expect out of the 1100 Duc motor, properly maintained of course? Thanks.

I've only had the one Duc so guess I can't really say with any authority. I've put about 22,000 mi. on my 800 in 3 seasons with zero breakdowns. And I would say that I ride the thing hard. I've had it to the "track," several 3000 mi. tours fully loaded with camping gear, it's been low sided several times, bounced in the grass... it's pretty tough. When the exhaust valve guides went it was still running great. I found the bad guides when I was checking clearance.

The 2 valvers seem pretty bullet proof and with conscientious maintenance (and sensible operation ) should go a long while. You also wouldn't have to work that 1100 motor nearly as hard as I do the 800.

There's this one...

http://www.ducatimonster.org/featured/2005aug/featured-aug05.html

That 900 was at 120,000 mi. when that article was done and he was well past 130,000 before he quit posting.

 

[GMP]

Thats outstanding. I figure I ride about 6K miles/yr. Thats one major service and a couple oil changes. What kind of milage do they get? The Rod is a gas hog unless I lug it around like a TC88, which it will do, but its happier at 4K+. Thanks for all the help. My neighbor and brother say I'm nuts for not having it in the garage already.

 

[rpduc]

Well they're not that great on mileage. I've never actually figured it, but on my 800 I can get about 120 miles on a 3.8 (??) gallon tank before the light comes on. There's still .8 gallons or something like that left in there at that point so I guess about 40 mpg.

I seem to remember that the 1100 was a little more thirsty than that. That combined with the small tank on the Hyper seems like a bit of a negative, but it ain't no touring bike. I'm usually ready to get off and stretch, hydrate, etc. a bit by then anyway.

 

[GMP]

The Night Rod gets mid 30s riding the midrange on my backroad commute. Light comes on at 70 miles, and its an every day fill up with premium, it won't run right on regular. The VRSC motor is funny in that it will use a little oil if you baby it, none at all if you let it breath. I have to get an insurance quote and crunch some numbers.

 

[Link]

My $.02 I've read a review or 2 about the Hypermortard great bike BIG fun but as an every day rider no body really liked it. I've owned an bought Aprillia Tuono new in 04 & after 15000 real hard miles nothing has broke or failed the valves were checked at 6K no adj. needed then again at 12K minor adj. done. If you can swing a test ride on the Duc, Shiver & give the Tuono a shot you prolly won't be happy with the power of the Shiver cause next to the Duc & Tuono I think the Shiver is gonna shiver.
Good luck