TuBliss

[roostafish]

I've been experimenting with lots of stuff since I've decided to try to qualify for the ISDE in 2010. One of them has been TuBliss tire inserts. I like them. They make it a snap to change a tire. A little different, but it's pretty nice. Not that a foam insert is impossible, but sometimes the tire doesn't bead, and that wobbly feeling drives me nuts. Certainly if I'm going to do two tires in less than 15 minutes, this TuBliss thing is an advantage.

I have enjoyed experimenting with tire pressures, running anywhere from 4-8 psi. What's incredible about that is that you can air down the tire and get unreal grip in low traction situations. I'll have to put some tires on that I'm used to though for a real traction report, because I tried some oddball Sedona Tires. They seem fine, but have been less predictable than my normal Dunlop 773. I'm not sure if it's the tire pressure, or the tire itself. They worked great in the desert, I ran 8 psi front and rear and had absolutely no complaints.

 

[SpeedyManiac]

Go for a hard 8 hour ride in adverse conditions with the Tubliss system. I would not trust that system to last all day at the ISDE, especially with FIM tires which don't have overly tough carcasses.

4-5 minutes to change a mousse once you learn the technique. It's not a difficult thing once you get a good tire stand and learn the technique.

 

[Skidad]

Go for a hard 8 hour ride in adverse conditions with the Tubliss system. I would not trust that system to last all day at the ISDE, especially with FIM tires which don't have overly tough carcasses.

4-5 minutes to change a mousse once you learn the technique. It's not a difficult thing once you get a good tire stand and learn the technique.

I think some really good points by Speedy.

I think the Tubliss works best with a strong carcass tire for off road (MX may be very different with fewer rocks) where you can really air the thing down to get it's full benefit (MT43 trials tire is excellent). I've been using it here in super rocky New England with an old, beat MT16 knobby that's really worn down, has had the front edges recut with a knobby knife, run at 6-7psi and it's amazing and has held air perfectly (I also do run a tire sealant). Who needs a trials tire when you can get away with that??? Would I use it for a Six Days??? I don't think so unless you do some serious testing before hand with those FIM approved tires that need to used in the event. Yeah, changes are easy and you can run it flat if the "inner" liner tube is holding air ok but it's 2 variables to F up that the mousse doesn't have.

I thought I read someplace that Tubliss was coming out with a new stronger liner setup. Might want to call Jeff a Nutech and ask about it.

 

[skid jackson]

I don't know about the run flat thing ...
I know two racers in New england that slash cut the side wall of their front tires on sharp rocks and couldn't ride effectively with the flat front tire. Not a racer but I would not go isde with something like that.

 

[roostafish]

This is exactly why I'm testing them. Bib Mousse is my plan still, but if I can run the TuBliss, I'll try it with the foams as a back up. I did a 90 mile ride in the desert (desert in Oregon, there's still trees). Ran them at 8 psi and pounded the heck out of them in the lava rock. They performed very well, but this was with a fairly tough tire. I'm going to try them with some fim legal tires and give that a try too. I think I'll have to go back to the dez for a real test, because the conditions here are pretty technical, and you don't get going near as fast for near as long.

Jeff at Neutech has been very positive with me and my feedback, he knows I'm giving them the shakedown. He told me the hot setup for Dakar was to inflate the liner to spec, bead the tire, then pull the core out and running 0 psi. How wierd is that?

On tires: I have enjoyed running trials tires, they work good most places, but a trials tire would not work at the ISDE. In 2006 in NZ there was a 40km road ride before you got to the first trail out of the Parc Ferme. That would equal one dead trials tire.

 

[roostafish]

I forgot to thank Speedy for his tire changer plans. They are nicely drawn. I'm going to modify it though, because it'll cost me about $120 for all the materials. I'm a farm boy remember, so I ordered an inexpensive ($60) "portable" tire changing ring (it folds in on itself) similar to a Zip TY unit. I'll weld it up strong and add the bead depresser. That'll save me some money and building time.

 

[Skidad]

Jeff at Neutech has been very positive with me and my feedback, he knows I'm giving them the shakedown. He told me the hot setup for Dakar was to inflate the liner to spec, bead the tire, then pull the core out and running 0 psi. How wierd is that?

.

I know that once the bead has seated properly there is no need to run the liner anywhere near the 110psi. It will hold just fine at much lower pressure but 0 psi I dont get. Is that just for sand riding. Please explain that a bit more.

Wouldn't suggest a trials tire for Six Days but the Pirelli MT43 holds up no problem to extended road sections. That and the Mitas are the only ones to really do that.

Good luck with your Six Day attempt.

 

[SpeedyManiac]

Tires 101 for the ISDE.

Step 1. Get ISDE tire order form from Metzeler.

Step 2. Fill out order form. Get Metzeler Six Days Extreme tires in the proper size for your motorcycle (E1 bikes - 120/90, E2/E3 bikes - 140/80). Depending on the plan/budget, I recommend trophy riders get 6 fronts and 6 rear tires while most average club riders can go with 3 fronts and 5 rear tires. For mousses, order the correct size for the tire (don't stick a 120 mousse in a 140 tire) and for quantity get 2 front and 2 rear mousses.

Step 3. Forget about anything tire related except learning how to change them quickly.

Step 4. Show up at ISDE. Walk to Metzeler pits. Give Wolfgang cash for tires/mousses. Ask Wolfgang for the special tire package. Load tires and mousses on Metzeler scooter. Ride in style back to your pits.

Step 5. Enjoy racing one of the oldest international motorcycle competitions in the world, and don't worry about your tires for the entire event.


*Sorry if I offend anyone with this post, but this is the best tire program for most ISDE racers. This is the recommended tire program for the average (and not so average) ISDE racer.

 

[roostafish]

Tires 101 for the ISDE.

Step 1. Get ISDE tire order form from Metzeler.


*Sorry if I offend anyone with this post, but this is the best tire program for most ISDE racers. This is the recommended tire program for the average (and not so average) ISDE racer.

You know what's funny. I've been offered a Dunlop deal, and I was on the phone with them today discussing their recommendation for FIM tires for the ISDE. He told me, "most of our riders do Metzler tires at the ISDE." Dunlop doesn't have a tire developed for FIM. They do have two legal tires, but they are dual sport tires, so, no va.

Unfortunately, I'm sure that Metzler deal is no where near free. Oh, well. What's a few hundred bucks when you're spending $15k?

 

[SpeedyManiac]

It's probably going to be $700-1000 for tires and mousses for the ISDE. It sucks, but that's part of racing the ISDE. At least Mexico will be cheap for travel and accomodation.

 

[roostafish]

It's probably going to be $700-1000 for tires and mousses for the ISDE. It sucks, but that's part of racing the ISDE. At least Mexico will be cheap for travel and accomodation.

Exactly why I want to go. I figure to save $10000-15000 just because I can drive there in the "bus" and be fully self contained. I can bring all my food (and not get sick), and basically be into it for fees and parts needed, plus fuel for the trip. (I already have 300 gallons of diesel to be loaded into the "bus" in 55 gallon drums.)

I remember airfare to OZ in 2000 was $3400!

 

[SpeedyManiac]

Here's a quick breakdown of my costs for the past two six days. All prices are in Canadian dollars.

Chile 2007:
Airfare - $2000
Hotel (2 weeks) - $1500
-No rental vehicle (cost was around $900 or so for the 2 weeks)
Entry fee - $650
FIM License - $150
Bike setup for ISDE (2007 GasGas EC250 Six Days edition, suspension work, spare parts, etc, etc) ~$9000-10000
Bike shipping - $700
Metzeler tires - $800
Food and stuff for 2 weeks - $1500

Total - $17200

Greece 2008:
Airfare - used airmiles, though retail was about $2000
Hotel (2 weeks) - $1000
Entry Fee - $500
FIM License - $150
Bike Rental (2009 GasGas EC250R) - $3000
Tires + mousses (I had mine from Chile - I paid 0) - $1000
Crate shipping (for tools, etc) - $250 (I split a crate with 2 friends to cut costs) - regular cost $700
Food - $1000

Total cost - $9350

Basically, it's going to cost around $10000 to race the ISDE. If you really cheap out, then you might be able to get it down to around $6000, but that's pushing it. It's a great experience and well worth the money.

By the way, anyone considering racing the ISDE should pick up "How to race the International Six Days Enduro" by Lawrence Hacking. The money numbers are a little off (the book was written over 15 years ago) and some of the rules have changed, but there's still a lot of valuable information.

 

[roostafish]

Thanks for the breakdown. That's really good, and current information. I know that qualifying has changed a lot since last I tried, so I'm eager to see how it will work out for me. Back in the day, they had a "senior" team, and took a team of over riders over the age of 40. I don't know if that exists any more, but I think that would be my best shot, now that I have reached the age!

I heard that the ISDE will be in USA in 2013. If that's the case, I may have another shot at going without racking up debt.

 

[Rick]

I heard that the ISDE will be in USA in 2013......Really....

I would hope that the promoter would pick Reno or Vegas....Why???? DESERT BABY!!I think our guys would kick major A$$ in the desert!

 

[roostafish]

Our guys would kick butt in the dez. I, however need it to be in the woods, and raining.

Oh, and further explanation on the 0 psi...... It was in the sand, and on a rally bike. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work for any of us. Jeff said that 4 psi would be great in the technical, slow going woods stuff, and 8 psi in the open, fast stuff. Just a starting point. I think people have yet to find the perfect pressure.

 

[SpeedyManiac]

Local promoter doesn't really pick the venue, FIM does. Good luck getting a desert event in the US. I think an ISDE in Idaho or Montana would be sweet. Really close by for me too.

 

[roostafish]

I like that the FIM picks. The Northwest would be SWEET! I doubt it would happen though. The FIM has history with the Eastern promoters.

I'd like the ISDE in Oregon, in the rain. Maybe Canada can get the ISDE, instead of East, maybe we can get it in BC!

Rick, have you ever done the National Enduro at Coalinga?

 

[Rick]

Yep.....Clear Creek used to be the bomb, snow, ice and some of the best single track the state offers!

 

[SpeedyManiac]

It's really doubtful the ISDE will be coming to Canada anytime in the near future. Right now there's no one to put it on, though things are looking up with the new Canadian Enduro Championship put on by World Enduro Canada (www.worldendurocanada.com). We have some wicked terrain, but there is a ton of bureaucracy to deal with plus actually getting the trails together to put on an ISDE event. Maybe some day...

 

[Krasi]

I just installed tubliss both front and rear and will probably test them this weekend.

As it turns out, it's not so easy to pump 100+ PSI of pressure in the inner tube. Do you use compressor or some kind of manual pump like the one in the instruction video for example (which skips the process of pumping )?