V force 2 reed cage

[Bailey28]

Hey guys, I've been poking around a bit and found some posts on making the 300 bottom end stronger. I specifically found some info on the old V force 2 reed valves making a stronger bottom end.

I found some new V force 2's on the internet going for $135. (V2M05) My question is that is it worth the upgrade or should I just stick with the V force 3 that came with my bike.

Another alternative would be to find low tension reeds for the V force 3, but I have not seen any.

 

[GMP]

I did one of the first VForce 2 conversions on an '03 EC250 including a custom manifold. It worked fantastic, but the '03 250 was a bit of a dog off the bottom IMO. Kent Anderson, a long time member here from Sweden, did the same on an '01 300. He got an '06 300 with a VForce 3, swapped the VF2 in, and said it gained some bottom. This is all with the two position block in low tension mode. Reed life was no longer than one season, but a 250 revs more than a 300 so your results may vary. Try it if you must have more bottom, just keep your eye on the reeds.

Do these new 300s come with reed spacers? If so remove it for more off the bottom snap. Jetting a well. Get the head done by Ron and the carb as well if your chasing jetting.

 

[Bailey28]

My jetting is pretty good, I finally figured out all the needle diameters, pilot jets, tapers etc.

I have the Vforce 3 in as stock right now, and it is backed up with a 5mm spacer plate. You mention removing the spacer, that makes it come alive on the bottom?

I don't need a ton more, just a little more snap right from idle would be nice. I tried the LTR cover and didn't like it as I thought it dulled the response and delayed the hit later.

Is the Vforce 3 adjustable?

Once the head comes off for the first top end, I will send it to Ron.

 

[GMP]

Take out the reed spacer, it should basically come on the pipe faster. I tried one in my first 250, a '00 XC, and it really softened it up too much. Hey, its free and you can put it back if you don't like it.

For more instant snap off idle get a 2K-2 ignition and add a weight, thats what I'll do with a new bike, have one on the shelf already ready to go. Being your in Fla I'll guess your a sand rider, and would probably like that mod.

No, the VF3 is not adjustable.

 

[Bailey28]

Yep, sand sand and wait..... oh yeah more sand...

I do ride outdoor mx (sand tracks of course) and the woods. I also ride on pavement occasionaly to get from A trail to B trail.

Having the power come on sooner would be a plus and I think I could jet out any unwanted effects of removing the spacer.

It seems that Tassinari went backwards, offering a new product that is not as adjustable as the old one.


I will take out the spacer and see how I like it. I need to get 6 shorter bolts as the bolts will bottom out on the case reed casting.

Also, I had a KDX200 years ago that came without a spacer. I hand made a 5mm spacer for it and hated it. It ran soooo much better without it. I guess losing the spacer adds to the primary compression ratio?

 

[GMP]

Our enduros in the southern part of the state are all sand, but tight. Sand is power robber, so now I get your quest for more low end from a 300. You could eaisly set that bike up so its way too much for more technical terrain.

The VF3 is an engineering evolution of the VF2 with a snap together design. Reed life on the VF2 in low tension mode was not good enough for general use, so the VF3 is sort of a compromise between the two modes. I talked to the MT engineers when I did my conversion, as I needed to know the reed petal travel to provide adequate case clearance. Even with the VF3 on the GGs you can expect to see petal corners/edges start to fray/chip at less than 100 hrs, depending on how you ride the bike(lug or rev). Mine were starting at around 85 hrs when I did a top end. I do reeds and the rubber coupler (cheap) with a top end so there are no surprises mid season.

Yeah, no need for that big flywheel in open sand trails. Look for a 2K-2 from a part out. Even an older one works but you have to cut and splice the harness, no big deal though. I'd then add a 10 - 12 oz weight. That will cut your total flywheel inertia to about half of the 2K-3 you have now. If you don't like it you could resell it easy here in no time.

 

[gasser]

I have a Vforce2 reed valve setup that I would sell for $50. It was working very well on my 300 but I switched back to the V3 when I did my last top end because the reed petals were just starting to show wear.

 

[Bailey28]

Gasser, thanks for keeping me in mind. I want to try the bike without the spacer in it first and evaluate.

From the sounds of it, I'm guessing the 2 and 3 series reeds are not interchangeable?

 

[GMP]

No, the only thing the two reed blocks have in common is the bolt pattern.

 

[stainlesscycle]

what are the differences in power delivery with the vforce versus the boyesen? i'm running the boyesen on my 01 300 and wondered if there is a significant advantage to the vforce? and i thought there was an adapter plate?

 

[GMP]

I thought it gave the 250 more everywhere, but most noticeable on the bottom. At the time there was no manfold for the GG, so I designed and made one. It was matched perfectly to the VF2 so perhaps this was part of the gain. Kent was equally impressed with the results on his 300. His manfold design was different however, being the RAD valve with the reed block machined off and a spacer added. Now all you need is the OEM manifold from a newer bike. Also, the VF2/VF3 is a tight fit in the pre '05 cases. The outer reeds can and will contact the cases at full extension. (up to 9mm per the MT engineer). I worked these areas of the cases perfectly flat with a fine file, then polished very smooth. This now functions as a reed stop, as there is approx 6 mm clearance from the outer petals to the cases. I'm sure you could improve on this by splitting the cases and machining them but my ghetto method worked fine as MT said it would.

FWIW, GasGas ran VF2s on the factory WEC bikes a year or two before they made it to OEM production.

 

[Bailey28]

Perhaps this is why people say that the earlier 300's grunt harder down low than the later ones? From what you guys are saying a VF2 cage in low tension seems to punch up the bottom end compared to a later bike with the VF3 setup.

The older VF2 and maybe a little more tension on the powervalve rod, the older oem FMF gnarly, and voila! A real grunter down low.

 

[GMP]

Just try the spacer removal first. Have the head done, and up the compression to the pump gas max of approx 200 PSI. Then, if you really want some fun. find an older CDI from an MC250 or EC/XC200. The CDI was the biggest cause of my '03 250 being a dud off the bottom. Cruiser and I had the same bikes both swapped our CDIs, same excellent results. That said, I think it would make the 300 an animal, not for me in the woods.

 

[Dude]

pump gas max 200psi where are you getting your pump has lol. I thought safe zone in pump was 180 or so

 

[GMP]

Approx 200 PSI is per Ron at RBD, who cut two heads for me that both measure in the 190s and run fine on east coast pump premium @ 93.

 

[Dude]

wow. how much is he milling after squish setting to get there 40 thou

 

[GMP]

You select compression/fuel, provide stock compression and squish crush test solder. Head volume is measured, milled, squish band cut, dome scooped out to get desired volume/compression.