Who's ridden a KTM200?
- Thread starter firffighter
- Start date
BluegassXCR
New member
I am an older(40+) A rider...I think they are just missing the mark on the powerband...If you ride it like a 125 it has too much power and if you ride it like a 250 it doesnt have enough torque...so if you can find that happy spot your good...I couldnt...
LAWMAN
Platinum Level Site Supporter
believe it or not I used to have a '79 XR 185--that whole bike flexed, but nothing would make it stop running short of a direct nuclear strike. those were the days! now I'm just spoiled....
My friend who is a 33 y/o "A" rider owns a KTM 200 (2007) and he loves it. I'm a 50 y/o "B" rider and I've swapped bikes with him on occasion (mine is a GG300 6-Days 2011). His bike has a nice suspension set up but the low end grunt was definitely missing and I don't like that at my age. I was constantly falling "off the pipe" and wasting time trying to get the rev's back up when I needed power. I used to race 125's when I was 16 but at age 50 small bikes are too much work and the weight savings doesn't make up for it. I prefer the 300 by far, the weight is close to a 200 (KTM vs KTM) and the power is much better. When I rode KTMs I always rode the 300.
It all comes down to how aggressively you ride. If you don't mind the extra work of keeping the bike on the pipe, you'll love the 200. Otherwise the 300 is much easier overall. Be sure to take a good long ride on the bike before making a final decision. We can all be tricked into feeling like we're heroes on a short ride on a small bike. It's the long tough rides that will determine your best option.
Steve
It all comes down to how aggressively you ride. If you don't mind the extra work of keeping the bike on the pipe, you'll love the 200. Otherwise the 300 is much easier overall. Be sure to take a good long ride on the bike before making a final decision. We can all be tricked into feeling like we're heroes on a short ride on a small bike. It's the long tough rides that will determine your best option.
Steve
firffighter
New member
Great discussion and appreciate everyone's input.
Here is why I am considering the 200. I am a mid-pack "B" rider, 42 and in fairly good shape. I only race 2 events a year, but most of my rides are with B or A riders. On a good day, pushing, I can hang with the top B's and stay still see the rear fender of the A guy 2 turns ahead. But, normally, I am a plain old intermediatte.
I am to the point where I ride exclusively 2nd-4th gear terrain. I used to be into hitting the most gnarly stuff I could find and had that attitude that I was in some exclusive club because I could tackle that gnarly section. What I found was I rode 10 miles in 2 hrs.! I decided that was a total waste because I like to ride and put in miles. I now usually ride 30-60 miles on a ride and only occasionally hit 1st gear in a nasty section or 5th going to the next section.
Having owned both KTM's and Gasgas here is my take:
- 300 (DE300, 300MXC): lug, lug, lug. Probably the easiest bike to ride. It makes up for your mistakes and you dont have to worry about gear selection. Not really heavy (for crying out loud, its a 2-stroke!). Super smooth power delivery. Dare I say, can be a bit on the boring side.
- 250: Split Personality. Here is what I mean. You can lug or you can rev. On both my ec250 and the KTM 250mxc, I feel like I cant really decide on how to ride it. Way quicker power transition than the 300. I always feel I am reigning these bikes in. Can be pushed hard and rewards an aggressive rider. It does give you the best of both worlds and does feel lighter than a 300.
- 200: Mt. Bike w/ Motor. Here I can only speak to the KTM with experience having owned 2 of them. I have only been on my son's EC200 twice and for short stints. Super light, flickable and you do feel like a hero. Power is snappy and you have to like working the clutch more than the others. Deflects no matter what you do with suspension due to light weight. High fun factor and also rewards an aggressive style. Surprising amount of low end though and can be lugged if terrain is flowing.
Now, with all that said, you can set any of these up to your liking with jetting, pipes, PV adjusting, throttle cams, FWW's, etc. In other words, if you want your 300 to scream, you can set it up for that and conversly if you want your 200 to lug, you can set it up for that. There are inherent characteristics to each due to the displacement and rotating mass with each that ultimately cant be overcome with mods.
If I were to nail down which bike I am fastest on, I would say it is the 250. But, that bikes wears me out the most for some reason. I am leaning toward a 200 because I do like feeling like a hero and the fun factor is just so high when you push that thing in 3rd gear wide open in the woods!
BTW, not really and bad choices because they really are all fantastic bikes. And, I have never had any issues with either the KTM or Gasgas. But, for the 200 market, I am leaning toward the KTM because it is so light based on the 125 chassis.
Sorry for being so long winded, just a fun topic, at least for me
Here is why I am considering the 200. I am a mid-pack "B" rider, 42 and in fairly good shape. I only race 2 events a year, but most of my rides are with B or A riders. On a good day, pushing, I can hang with the top B's and stay still see the rear fender of the A guy 2 turns ahead. But, normally, I am a plain old intermediatte.
I am to the point where I ride exclusively 2nd-4th gear terrain. I used to be into hitting the most gnarly stuff I could find and had that attitude that I was in some exclusive club because I could tackle that gnarly section. What I found was I rode 10 miles in 2 hrs.! I decided that was a total waste because I like to ride and put in miles. I now usually ride 30-60 miles on a ride and only occasionally hit 1st gear in a nasty section or 5th going to the next section.
Having owned both KTM's and Gasgas here is my take:
- 300 (DE300, 300MXC): lug, lug, lug. Probably the easiest bike to ride. It makes up for your mistakes and you dont have to worry about gear selection. Not really heavy (for crying out loud, its a 2-stroke!). Super smooth power delivery. Dare I say, can be a bit on the boring side.
- 250: Split Personality. Here is what I mean. You can lug or you can rev. On both my ec250 and the KTM 250mxc, I feel like I cant really decide on how to ride it. Way quicker power transition than the 300. I always feel I am reigning these bikes in. Can be pushed hard and rewards an aggressive rider. It does give you the best of both worlds and does feel lighter than a 300.
- 200: Mt. Bike w/ Motor. Here I can only speak to the KTM with experience having owned 2 of them. I have only been on my son's EC200 twice and for short stints. Super light, flickable and you do feel like a hero. Power is snappy and you have to like working the clutch more than the others. Deflects no matter what you do with suspension due to light weight. High fun factor and also rewards an aggressive style. Surprising amount of low end though and can be lugged if terrain is flowing.
Now, with all that said, you can set any of these up to your liking with jetting, pipes, PV adjusting, throttle cams, FWW's, etc. In other words, if you want your 300 to scream, you can set it up for that and conversly if you want your 200 to lug, you can set it up for that. There are inherent characteristics to each due to the displacement and rotating mass with each that ultimately cant be overcome with mods.
If I were to nail down which bike I am fastest on, I would say it is the 250. But, that bikes wears me out the most for some reason. I am leaning toward a 200 because I do like feeling like a hero and the fun factor is just so high when you push that thing in 3rd gear wide open in the woods!
BTW, not really and bad choices because they really are all fantastic bikes. And, I have never had any issues with either the KTM or Gasgas. But, for the 200 market, I am leaning toward the KTM because it is so light based on the 125 chassis.
Sorry for being so long winded, just a fun topic, at least for me
Rick
New member
I hope this help:
I used to race a 1990 YZWRA 250 when I was stationed in So.Cal. I took an assignment in Nor.Cal (home turf). I meet a guy by chance who was a top D36 enduro racer who rode a YZ125. He is also a Silver ISDE medalist some years back and he rented a TM125 for the ISDE. Anyway, we used to ride together up a great place in Nor. Cal called Stonyford, The Valley Climbers M/C puts on a enduro in Nov called the WFO. Anyway, I was riding my WRA 250 at that time and this guy took me under his wing a little and gave me some great schooling. After watching me ride (following me) his best advise to me was "dump the 250, for woods riding get a 125 or a 200". The 250 was a handful in the tight stuff, I felt like I was having to man handle the power all day long. He also stated that you will be faster on the smaller motor because you will be smoother and have more engery to at the end of the day. So from time to time we would swap out bikes. I would ride his YZ 125 and after a few minutes of getting the heavy f/wheel effect of the 125 I would find myself more in tune with line selection and being smoother than trying to tame the big 250. I was sold....dump my plated (dual sport) Baja Designs YZWRA 250 and find a 125 or 200.
On day in the mail was my latest copy of Dirt Rider and there was a write up on the GasGas EC200 and the EC250. (I still have that issue to this day). That was it......the rest is history. I read it over and over......searched the internet and found the old Smackover GasGas forum. I joined and asked a ton of questions about the 200. The 99 was the first year that GasGas made the 200 so there was not very many to be found......but I found a guy in Oregon (Roostafish) who had 200 and he wanted a 250. The deal was done. No dealers in my area, never seen one, never rode one, just jumped in head first and drove to Oregon and got it!
I after I got the bike I called my ISDE buddy and we meet up in Stoneyford for a ride.....Man that thing was GREAT! It was like riding a hot knife through butter. I feel in love with that bike after 5 hours of riding.....It would turn on a dime, stop, and most of all, had very usable power to haul my 185 lbs 5'11 frame through the woods without wearing me out. I was in great shape and I was an active duty U.S Marine at the time. I was able to concentrate on the riding and not letting the bike control me.
So, Matt (ISDE Guy) says, he enter the WFO in Nov and put her to the test. I did and it was a zoo! It had snowed the week before and on that cold Nov morning I line up with out a computer, rool chart or speedo on like minute 72 in the 200cc class and went for broke. The event was brutal.....I think it was after check 3 that we came to a hill that was kicking everyones but.....bottle necked at the bottom of the hill. The trail was iced over, rocks, narrow single track and guys were houring out right there...For fear of houring out I pushed my way to the bottom and dropped the hammer in second gear, up shifted to third and managed to find some tracton (Thanks to my Metzelers) lugged that pig up the hill on my first try....I know sounds like a B.S line, but I did, I just passed blew by 50 or so riders and arrived at my check with minutes to spare! My confidence was sky high! Anyway I nailed a couple of special tests and at my next to last check I was dowing great. I departed that check and was screaming up a 2 track trail with water bars in it, caught some air, landed on ice, slid out, shattered my OEM GasGas hand guard, locked up the front wheel and hit the ground hard! (I later found out I broke my collar bone) My day was DONE! I rode out of the woods on the back of a Husky holding my arm/shoulder to the medical tent. Some club members rode my GasGas'er back to the truck and the guy was impressed by the bike! Anyway, I was one of two riders in my class to even make it to check 7. The guy that won in class that day finished out at check 8 was on a KTM EXC 200. I finished 2nd place in the "C" 200.
I took a break to heal up and did several more enduros and then in 2008-2009I wanted to race a full season of cross country to try to move up. I raced like 12 events all 1.5 hour races on my 200. This time I was in the 40+ Senior class. It was a sea of orange 4 strokes and a hand full of 2 strokes and ONE GASGAS 1999 EC 200! It took me 4 or 5 events to get the hang of riding balls out for 1.5 hours. Once I figured out that if I would stay in the top 10-12 out of 30-40 riders I could finish in points no less than a top 5. Those guys were wearing themselves out at about 45-60 minute mark, I would then start picking them off one by one! The tougher and tigher the course, the faster I was, the slower they were. I managed to finish the 2008-2009 D-36 series with a 5th place plate in class, pointed out and moved up to the "B" Senior.
Could I have done this on a 450? 250? 250 2 stroke? I don't know, but I did it on a 9 year old 200! Why...I feel that the size of the bike was right, I could ride it all day at race speeds, touch the ground, was in control 95% of the time and it was bullet proof all season long. I raced in deep sand at Marysville, 3500ft at Wilesyville, Honeylake MX (monster long up hill start) and all over Nor.Cal
Sorry for the long winded story, but my point is, I was comfortable on the bike, I knew what it could do and could not do. I knew that at the sand tracks it had to be WFO all day long, keeping it pinned though the turns, riding the wide outside line keeping the motor on the pipe for 1.5 hours. The motor never did anything crazy or run out of power. Plus it is a great feeling that you just kicked some KTM 450 butt on a little no name 200
Please don't get the wrong impression, I am not blowing my own horn, just stating that fact that a 200cc motor is a great machine in the hands of someone willing to push it.......and frankly, I don't think I ever have rode the bike to it's limit......who can????
The big question is......would I every buy another 200.....in a heartbeat, even at 50 years old.....my next choice would be the 300, but I would have to really change my style and remove the gear shifter....leave it in thrid
I used to race a 1990 YZWRA 250 when I was stationed in So.Cal. I took an assignment in Nor.Cal (home turf). I meet a guy by chance who was a top D36 enduro racer who rode a YZ125. He is also a Silver ISDE medalist some years back and he rented a TM125 for the ISDE. Anyway, we used to ride together up a great place in Nor. Cal called Stonyford, The Valley Climbers M/C puts on a enduro in Nov called the WFO. Anyway, I was riding my WRA 250 at that time and this guy took me under his wing a little and gave me some great schooling. After watching me ride (following me) his best advise to me was "dump the 250, for woods riding get a 125 or a 200". The 250 was a handful in the tight stuff, I felt like I was having to man handle the power all day long. He also stated that you will be faster on the smaller motor because you will be smoother and have more engery to at the end of the day. So from time to time we would swap out bikes. I would ride his YZ 125 and after a few minutes of getting the heavy f/wheel effect of the 125 I would find myself more in tune with line selection and being smoother than trying to tame the big 250. I was sold....dump my plated (dual sport) Baja Designs YZWRA 250 and find a 125 or 200.
On day in the mail was my latest copy of Dirt Rider and there was a write up on the GasGas EC200 and the EC250. (I still have that issue to this day). That was it......the rest is history. I read it over and over......searched the internet and found the old Smackover GasGas forum. I joined and asked a ton of questions about the 200. The 99 was the first year that GasGas made the 200 so there was not very many to be found......but I found a guy in Oregon (Roostafish) who had 200 and he wanted a 250. The deal was done. No dealers in my area, never seen one, never rode one, just jumped in head first and drove to Oregon and got it!
I after I got the bike I called my ISDE buddy and we meet up in Stoneyford for a ride.....Man that thing was GREAT! It was like riding a hot knife through butter. I feel in love with that bike after 5 hours of riding.....It would turn on a dime, stop, and most of all, had very usable power to haul my 185 lbs 5'11 frame through the woods without wearing me out. I was in great shape and I was an active duty U.S Marine at the time. I was able to concentrate on the riding and not letting the bike control me.
So, Matt (ISDE Guy) says, he enter the WFO in Nov and put her to the test. I did and it was a zoo! It had snowed the week before and on that cold Nov morning I line up with out a computer, rool chart or speedo on like minute 72 in the 200cc class and went for broke. The event was brutal.....I think it was after check 3 that we came to a hill that was kicking everyones but.....bottle necked at the bottom of the hill. The trail was iced over, rocks, narrow single track and guys were houring out right there...For fear of houring out I pushed my way to the bottom and dropped the hammer in second gear, up shifted to third and managed to find some tracton (Thanks to my Metzelers) lugged that pig up the hill on my first try....I know sounds like a B.S line, but I did, I just passed blew by 50 or so riders and arrived at my check with minutes to spare! My confidence was sky high! Anyway I nailed a couple of special tests and at my next to last check I was dowing great. I departed that check and was screaming up a 2 track trail with water bars in it, caught some air, landed on ice, slid out, shattered my OEM GasGas hand guard, locked up the front wheel and hit the ground hard! (I later found out I broke my collar bone) My day was DONE! I rode out of the woods on the back of a Husky holding my arm/shoulder to the medical tent. Some club members rode my GasGas'er back to the truck and the guy was impressed by the bike! Anyway, I was one of two riders in my class to even make it to check 7. The guy that won in class that day finished out at check 8 was on a KTM EXC 200. I finished 2nd place in the "C" 200.
I took a break to heal up and did several more enduros and then in 2008-2009I wanted to race a full season of cross country to try to move up. I raced like 12 events all 1.5 hour races on my 200. This time I was in the 40+ Senior class. It was a sea of orange 4 strokes and a hand full of 2 strokes and ONE GASGAS 1999 EC 200! It took me 4 or 5 events to get the hang of riding balls out for 1.5 hours. Once I figured out that if I would stay in the top 10-12 out of 30-40 riders I could finish in points no less than a top 5. Those guys were wearing themselves out at about 45-60 minute mark, I would then start picking them off one by one! The tougher and tigher the course, the faster I was, the slower they were. I managed to finish the 2008-2009 D-36 series with a 5th place plate in class, pointed out and moved up to the "B" Senior.
Could I have done this on a 450? 250? 250 2 stroke? I don't know, but I did it on a 9 year old 200! Why...I feel that the size of the bike was right, I could ride it all day at race speeds, touch the ground, was in control 95% of the time and it was bullet proof all season long. I raced in deep sand at Marysville, 3500ft at Wilesyville, Honeylake MX (monster long up hill start) and all over Nor.Cal
Sorry for the long winded story, but my point is, I was comfortable on the bike, I knew what it could do and could not do. I knew that at the sand tracks it had to be WFO all day long, keeping it pinned though the turns, riding the wide outside line keeping the motor on the pipe for 1.5 hours. The motor never did anything crazy or run out of power. Plus it is a great feeling that you just kicked some KTM 450 butt on a little no name 200
Please don't get the wrong impression, I am not blowing my own horn, just stating that fact that a 200cc motor is a great machine in the hands of someone willing to push it.......and frankly, I don't think I ever have rode the bike to it's limit......who can????
The big question is......would I every buy another 200.....in a heartbeat, even at 50 years old.....my next choice would be the 300, but I would have to really change my style and remove the gear shifter....leave it in thrid
firffighter
New member
Thanks Rick! Awesome report and I couldnt agree more.
I rode my KDX220 (very modded with KX forks) in the Monkeybutt Harescramble several years ago. I'm lined up with a sea of orange thumpers and I'm thinking no way I will keep up. Long story short, those guys got so stinkin tired by the mid-way point (75 mile race), that I started picking them off like no tomorrow. I rode that KDX at the same pace all day long and was able to have plenty of energy to spare at the end.
Maybe I'll just convince my son that he would be better off on something else and I'll keep his EC200
I rode my KDX220 (very modded with KX forks) in the Monkeybutt Harescramble several years ago. I'm lined up with a sea of orange thumpers and I'm thinking no way I will keep up. Long story short, those guys got so stinkin tired by the mid-way point (75 mile race), that I started picking them off like no tomorrow. I rode that KDX at the same pace all day long and was able to have plenty of energy to spare at the end.
Maybe I'll just convince my son that he would be better off on something else and I'll keep his EC200
200 lover here.
owned an 08 ktm 200xc for about a year and a half. We spent the time to set it up with suspension, jetting, pv setting, and pipes. It was to this day a bike i wish i never sold in exchange for the 10' ktm 250xc that replaced it.
Missing the ktm 200xc I decided to purchase an 11' gas gas six days 200! I have had it for about 6 months now. It has taken lots of work to bring up to a comfort level similiar to the ktm I currently own / owned. Pretty frustrating at times. I also built a yz144. love the small bores.!! for the record I'm a 165 lb a/b rider in good shape.
Do I like the gas gas? yes and no.
Likes: 1. handling-if the bars dont get tweaked when you crash. 2. Looks great 3. LTR suspension rocks 4. smooth motor if its mellow terrain 5. sounds great. love the gas gas pipe note.
Dislikes 1. the low foot peg height sux when it comes to jumping from a ktm to a yz to then a gas gas... 2. Triple clamps -seems like my clamps get tweaked easily after a crash 3. feels heavy when quickly braking hard I lose my front end alot due to the weight- could be the cheezy 6 days metzler tires that I just threw away. ??? 4. the funky low end. this bike is pretty pipey if you live near hills and challenging terrain it is difficult to keep it in smooth power range and still make the sections. power is weaker than the ktm 200. so clutching is more necessary and critical. my gasser motor is modded too(head, ports, piston). 5 . weak front brake compared to ktm- bought a ktm brembo unit 6. top end seems to lack compared to my other bikes. this is the case on the hardest steepest hills.
If you ride very challenging A or AA terrain I think a GasGas250 would be better. If you are set on a 200 for weight and fun. I'd get a ktm. I wish I still had mine. The guy who bought it is hard to keep up with now where before he was always behind us. Too bad the bike is gettting completely thrashed or I would try to buy it back.
I'm still not giving up on the gas gas 200 though!!!
owned an 08 ktm 200xc for about a year and a half. We spent the time to set it up with suspension, jetting, pv setting, and pipes. It was to this day a bike i wish i never sold in exchange for the 10' ktm 250xc that replaced it.
Missing the ktm 200xc I decided to purchase an 11' gas gas six days 200! I have had it for about 6 months now. It has taken lots of work to bring up to a comfort level similiar to the ktm I currently own / owned. Pretty frustrating at times. I also built a yz144. love the small bores.!! for the record I'm a 165 lb a/b rider in good shape.
Do I like the gas gas? yes and no.
Likes: 1. handling-if the bars dont get tweaked when you crash. 2. Looks great 3. LTR suspension rocks 4. smooth motor if its mellow terrain 5. sounds great. love the gas gas pipe note.
Dislikes 1. the low foot peg height sux when it comes to jumping from a ktm to a yz to then a gas gas... 2. Triple clamps -seems like my clamps get tweaked easily after a crash 3. feels heavy when quickly braking hard I lose my front end alot due to the weight- could be the cheezy 6 days metzler tires that I just threw away. ??? 4. the funky low end. this bike is pretty pipey if you live near hills and challenging terrain it is difficult to keep it in smooth power range and still make the sections. power is weaker than the ktm 200. so clutching is more necessary and critical. my gasser motor is modded too(head, ports, piston). 5 . weak front brake compared to ktm- bought a ktm brembo unit 6. top end seems to lack compared to my other bikes. this is the case on the hardest steepest hills.
If you ride very challenging A or AA terrain I think a GasGas250 would be better. If you are set on a 200 for weight and fun. I'd get a ktm. I wish I still had mine. The guy who bought it is hard to keep up with now where before he was always behind us. Too bad the bike is gettting completely thrashed or I would try to buy it back.
I'm still not giving up on the gas gas 200 though!!!
noobi
New member
Put a 2k2 flywheel/stator with a 9oz fww on it and laugh away the response problems.
My first bike was a 2009 KTM 200 XC, they are a very easy bike to ride fast. I now have a 2011 Gas Gas 300, I like it a little better for what I do, but I don't feel I give up much if I take the 200 out for a ride. Funny thing, i got more hole shots on the 200 than the 300, thats weird. The 200 KTM is a very capable bike, you won't be disappointed and a lot of your friends will want to ride it.
By the way both of my bikes are for sale let me know if you are interested in either.
By the way both of my bikes are for sale let me know if you are interested in either.
firffighter
New member
So would I be nuts to get rid of my EC250 for a KTM200?
Hard to part with the Gasgas for any bike, let alone an orange one!
Hard to part with the Gasgas for any bike, let alone an orange one!
ride one first, ktm's suspension is an acquired taste
firffighter
New member
Well, decided that it was probably better to just keep the EC250 and just spend more time riding my son's EC200 before making a decision.
Interesting though that there are quite a few local NW guys going to smaller 2-strokes over the traditional 250/300. Light weight and improved low end performance on these little bikes seems to be a hit.
Interesting though that there are quite a few local NW guys going to smaller 2-strokes over the traditional 250/300. Light weight and improved low end performance on these little bikes seems to be a hit.
Remember, these small bore bikes need some real clutch work in any demanding trail conditions though. Its true, theres no replacement for displacement. ...
the 200 dont, but the 150's sure do
I'm 200 pounds and I never have to clutch my 200 even at places like highland park
cascade_crawler
New member
I dont care what bike you ride, around here in PNW you have to clutch any bike in the nasty stuff, and yes I have many hours on a 300 machine.
firffighter
New member
Very true! If you have never ridden here you dont understand.
PNW has the 3deadly "R's": Rain, Roots and Rocks!
Oh yeah and it is steep!
PNW has the 3deadly "R's": Rain, Roots and Rocks!
Oh yeah and it is steep!
