07 KTM 200 xcw vs 2011 gasgas 200 six days

[roverhybrids]

I have read the other current 200 threads.

I had a KTM 300mxc and recently sold and got a 2011 GasGas ec300 race model. Love the GG ergos.
I also have a 2007 KTM 200 XC-W. I bought this bike with a blown motor(no oil in fuel) and rebuilt it using some of the shops recommended on KTMtalk. It's got the head modded by cycleplayground(squish set to 1.1mm), FMF gnarly and Q stealth silencer. AND I've spent some time on the jetting(currently loving the kawi needle). I think this bike(engine) rips from the bottom to the top. If I could change anything it would be to soften the bottom/first 1/8th a little(maybe throttle cam) to make it a little easier in the technical stuff.

Anyways I've been contemplating selling this KTM and getting a 2011 GasGas 200, but I'm concerned about the GG engine and if I can get it to run like my current KTM 200.(IE with head mod and some jetting work)

 

[roostafish]

There is no reason you shouldn't be able to get the GG to run like the KTM. There may be some power characteristics that would be different due to ignition and pipe differences, but I'm certain you can make the same horsepower numbers. Back in '99 I got the first EC 200 anybody had ever seen in this area. My shop has a dyno and we compared my GG to a KTM 200. We were 4 HP short at that time, (29 to 33hp at the wheel). After head (squish), pipe, ignition timing, we had 35 HP. It was a rocket. In fact, the shop had a GG 250 at the time which had not yet been sold. The shop owner tested that '99 EC 250 on the same dyno and got 37HP. My 200 after mods was only two horsepower short. I know the 250's are much better than what they were back then, and I assume the 200 is too. I think I'd jump on it and have fun with the mods. For sure the '11 GG has a superior chassis/suspension setup than an '07 KTM.

 

[bukwheat]

I would think that any difference in the power between the two or possible short comings of the power of the GG 200 would be offset by the superior handling of the GG over the KTM.

I have a buddy with a 2007 KTM 200 that has had the suspension revalved by a prominent unnamed suspension shop here in the southeast and was not
pleased at all with the stock or reworked suspension. He won't even ride it because it handles like crap, his words. I made the mistake of letting him ride my 06 GG 250 and it showed him what a good handling bike was. I believe the difference is the KTM is a smaller chassis than the 250 GG (and subsequently, the 200GG) and the KTM tends to wander and not seem planted like a slightly heavier bike. I had an 03 200exc and never liked the
handling for it nervousness over rough ground.

I think the GG motor can be every bit as impressive as your KTM but with better handling traits.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[Elvis74]

the problem in my opinion is that the EC200 Gasser has the same frame and suspension like the EC300.
The KTM has the frame from the EXC125 and this makes it much more fun than the bigger ones.

 

[gasser]

the problem in my opinion is that the EC200 Gasser has the same frame and suspension like the EC300.
The KTM has the frame from the EXC125 and this makes it much more fun than the bigger ones.

For begginers and smaller framed people I think all the bike makers are off the mark. A competent woods bike(good handling and suspension) with a seat height under 35 inches and wheelbase under 55 inches weighing under 215 pounds would appeal to most offroad riders at some point in their riding careers. All the bikes that fit those criteria are either under sprung, over weight, under powered, or too race oriented. Who wouldn't want a play bike with a 34 inch seat height, 55 inch wheelbase, 10-11 inches of suspension, torquey bullet proof motor, and weight under 200 pounds?

 

[roostafish]

For begginers and smaller framed people I think all the bike makers are off the mark. A competent woods bike(good handling and suspension) with a seat height under 35 inches and wheelbase under 55 inches weighing under 215 pounds would appeal to most offroad riders at some point in their riding careers. All the bikes that fit those criteria are either under sprung, over weight, under powered, or too race oriented. Who wouldn't want a play bike with a 34 inch seat height, 55 inch wheelbase, 10-11 inches of suspension, torquey bullet proof motor, and weight under 200 pounds?

KTM Freeride 350. It is on it's way. It's sort of what the Pampera should have been. It's only $10,000!

 

[MrBlah]

For begginers and smaller framed people I think all the bike makers are off the mark. A competent woods bike(good handling and suspension) with a seat height under 35 inches and wheelbase under 55 inches weighing under 215 pounds would appeal to most offroad riders at some point in their riding careers. All the bikes that fit those criteria are either under sprung, over weight, under powered, or too race oriented. Who wouldn't want a play bike with a 34 inch seat height, 55 inch wheelbase, 10-11 inches of suspension, torquey bullet proof motor, and weight under 200 pounds?

the ktm 200 does this, very good beginner bike, I have an autoclutch and trials tire on mine, my wife loves it

it feels like a toy compared to a gasgas, the gasgas frame is significantly bigger, the 2006-2007 ktm 200's will turn under a gasgas, but they do not have high speed stability

 

[bukwheat]

the ktm 200 does this, very good beginner bike, I have an autoclutch and trials tire on mine, my wife loves it

it feels like a toy compared to a gasgas, the gasgas frame is significantly bigger, the 2006-2007 ktm 200's will turn under a gasgas, but they do not have high speed stability

I have never seen or ridden any KTM that could turn under a GG, period. Just sayin' Well, maybe an 80cc KTM....

 

[john01]

I'm going to get a Ossa Explorer for my play bike when they make it to the USA. 33" seat height, 164 lbs, 280 cc 2-stroke, with FI. I would think it will be a good turning bike. I know the GG bikes are. The KTM's .....not so much at least the two my son had and a 300 I had a brief ride on.

 

[roostafish]

I'm going to get a Ossa Explorer for my play bike when they make it to the USA. 33" seat height, 164 lbs, 280 cc 2-stroke, with FI. I would think it will be a good turning bike. I know the GG bikes are. The KTM's .....not so much at least the two my son had and a 300 I had a brief ride on.

In defense of the KTM, a KTM will only work for it's own rider. That sounds funny, but you absolutely must have the sag set correctly, and I mean dead on, or else the bike won't turn. Each person is a different weight, so unless your riding buddy that has a KTM that works for him weighs exactly what you do, wears the same gear, carries the same amount of tools, and fills his drink system exactly the same, you will not like his KTM.

 

[john01]

Their ergos are also an aquired taste IMHO. I believe you on the KTM set up deal but what happens to the handling on a KTM when you start with 3 gallons of fuel and get down to a gallon or less? Biggest other problem I had with my son's KTM's was the lack of traction when you got up on the tank and headshake when you slid back. I like less fiinky bikes and thats why I'd pick the 200 GG over the 200 KTM and I haven't ridden either.

 

[gasser]

KTM Freeride 350. It is on it's way. It's sort of what the Pampera should have been. It's only $10,000!

The Freeride 350 is very close (slightly longer, heavier, and higher than 55/215/35) but it's cost will keep it from reaching XR/KDX status. GasGas could make a similar bike 10-15 pounds lighter with a much shorter seat height if they used their 4stroke side valve engine and it would cost a whole lot less.

Now to shift gears and jump in on the ktm/GG 200 debate. I just don't understand why some people think the ktm is much smaller than a GG200. The height, weight, and lengths are almost identical. The wheelbase is only one quarter of an inch longer - that is about one third of a chain link so a ktm with a slightly worn chain is longer. We all know they are taller and if you can believe the dry weight specification the new gassers are also lighter.

 

[shark4465]

i had ktm 200's love the motor just can't get them handle great pick up my gasgas 300 this weekend

 

[GMP]

One thing to consider is that although the KTM is based on the 125 not the 250, the GG250(pre '12 anyway) is smaller than a KTM250, so the difference is not that great. Its more of a perception issue based on specs that hurts the GG200, where people think they should just buy the 250 if there is no small bore size/weight advantage.

 

[roverhybrids]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm familiar with the GasGas bikes as I have a 2011 300 already.

I understand the GG 200 shares the same chassis as the 300.

My concern lies with selling the KTM 200. I love the way the motor runs now that I've dialed it in. I had a a chance to sell it for top dollar and turned it down cause I just rode it the day before!

Had someone look at it on Sunday and I was scared they were going to buy it.

Now have someone(supposedly) coming on thursday from 3 hours away. If he does come I don't think there is any way he wouldn't buy it.

So what it really comes down to for me is if I can get the GG 200 to run like my KTM 200. I don't know why I/one couldn't............

 

[stainlesscycle]

So what it really comes down to for me is if I can get the GG 200 to run like my KTM 200. I don't know why I/one couldn't............

the short answer is yes. early cdi, 2k2 ignition, push your timing just a tiny bit advanced, jetting and maybe a gearing change.

i've ridden both back to back. the biggest problem i had with the ktm is the toylike feel, and unstable rear end. the ktm motor is snappy, and my gg200 was just as snappy. butthe gg chassis gives you the handling. it does feel heavier though, because it is..

 

[gasser]

the short answer is yes. early cdi, 2k2 ignition, push your timing just a tiny bit advanced, jetting and maybe a gearing change.

i've ridden both back to back. the biggest problem i had with the ktm is the toylike feel, and unstable rear end. the ktm motor is snappy, and my gg200 was just as snappy. butthe gg chassis gives you the handling. it does feel heavier though, because it is..

The new gasser 200s are reported to be 207 pounds where as the 2004 200 gasser weighed 222 pounds (both dry weights). The new KTM 200 is 214 pounds without gas so that puts it very close to the gasser (suspension fluids, tranny oil, and water would weigh roughly 7 pounds). The gassers are getting lighter while the KTMs are getting heavier (at least the ones that are switching to linkage).

 

[john01]

I read the 200 GG bikes were only a few pounds lighter than the 250/300's . I hope your figures are correct; sounds awesome if true. Either way I don't see why a 200 GG could't run with a 200 KTM.

 

[Skidad]

Don't overthink it and just do it. It's only a motorcycle and if it doesn't work out to your liking go get another used KTM 200 which are easily available. Also the KTM 08 and up chassis is better than your 07 anyway and especially the 09 and up suspension. Big difference actually.

There was a guy here Billy Burns who was a GG sponsored 200 rider for a few years. GG factory even made him a special 200 for the Six Days and he rode all the National and NETRA enduros on the GG 200. He eventually went Orange riding their 200 and later 250. His honest view is the KTM 200 motor was better with broader power and lowend and the GG chassis/suspension is better. Reading between the lines for a bunch of years and lots of posts this seems to be the non biased consensus. Shoot me if you want. Face it the 200 KTM has the ability to be tuned so many ways with all the pipes available, different ignitions, CDI's, flywheels, adjustable PV etc and a HUGE knowledge base. Without direct evidence I also seriously doubt the GG would win the weight contest but really who cares with it's great chassis, turning and stability the KTM can only dream about. If/when KTM puts the 200 motor into their new linked chassis that will be interesting. GG motor can be made to sing but it might take more work to get it the way you like it. 1st stop head squish and go from there. Also, some guys have had good luck putting a 36mm carb on the 200 to improve low end response.

 

[roverhybrids]

Well the KTM found a new owner today....