2005 EC 250/300 Kicker trouble

[FFRDave]

IT JUST DOESNT FEEL RIGHT !!


When I try to start it up, the kicker seems to miss the first half of the stroke (most of the time), only engaging on the last half to third of a stroke. As it is missing the first half of a stroke, it feels like its catching a little where it should be engaging.

A couple of times it seemed to actualy bind, and then abruptly release, crashing to the bottom of the stroke (hurting the instep if my foot).

A couple of (other times) the kick starter engaged at the top part of the stroke (like it should) and worked smoothly to turn the motor over (like it should), and fired the bike up (like it should).

Besides all of that, the bike runs great. I am very thrilled with this machine.

I think I could fix it, but it will require me to take the right side cover off the engine. It looks like I will wind up removing the water pump cover, impeller and seal in the process. I also expect to need a new gasket/O-ring for the right case cover (or are those sealed with RTV?) and water pump cover. I have no real idea of what the innerds of that kicker look like or how it functions, but it seems to be some sort of ratchetting mechanism. I also think I will need to replace the seal that goes around that kick starter shaft.

What Parts will I need ?

Besides: Water pump cover gasket, water pump seal, Kicker shaft seal, and right side case gasket.

Will I need any special tools ?

Such as: Seal puller/installer, Spring holder/compresser, Gear puller, or ANY OTHER less than common tool I havent thought of.
I have a lot of tools, and always love an excuse to buy more. I just need a complete parts list and the right tools to do the job.

Dave

 

[darren]

Dave

You will probably find that the teeth on the ratchet mechanism have worn in one place hence the intermittant problem.
You should not need to remove the water pump cover or seals If you remove the right hand casing with no damage to the seal you could also reuse the gasket with a smear of silicone around the water seal.

www.safemanuals.com/user-guide-instructions-owner-manual/GAS GAS/EC 250-_Ehis link

If you cannot dowload this let me have your e-mail and i will send you a copy.
It is a useful manual and will help you loads.

When you fit the kickstart mechanism place it in the recess then turn clockwise so the release arm slots behind the metal bracket. Then tension the spring (not too much) and slot into the hole.
Also there is a metal sleeve on the shaft with a cut out in it the cut out needs to be slotted over the inner spring . If you dont do this you wont have a hope in hell getting ur cover on.

short and sharp me laptops gonna die. Good luck Darren

 

[fury1]

I just did this to my 300 and must say,very easy to do by yourself,remove kickstarter,pull off your pipe,brake pedal,skidplate,drain your oil and coolant,take off your clutch cover and waterpump being careful not to damage the gaskets or buy new ones,remove the right side engine cover,remove the clutch pressure plate springs and cover,then pull out your clutch plates and leave them in order,then you need a big metric socket with an airgun is easiest to remove the basket or get a tool that holds the basket to remove it,then you need to remove the heavy outer spring on the plastic collar and remove the collar,the gear comes right out after that,most likely you will need three parts,the inner spring,small gear and kicker gear,and any gaskets you need to replace,I can look up the number for the parts,but gofasters knew exactly what parts I needed,I should have taken a few pics,when I do my 200 in a week or so I will take a few photos

 

[FFRDave]

Maybe a good time to re-do the clutch since I am already in there

fury1, should I instal a new clutch, while I am at it ??

darren never mentioned the clutch in his post.
What tool is it that will hold the Clutch Basket during removal ? Would this tool be make/model specific (IE: one specific year, and one make, one model only, and for the bikes made before July that year and only on rainy tuesdays) or fairly universal (IE: like for use with 250 two strokes, most makes or models)? I remember seeing a gas gas only tool with a very specific part number. I have two Gassers, so such a tool would still be a good addition to my collection.

My worst fear is removing a cover and having a bunch of small (swiss watch) parts spring out . None of my local shops will work on a Gas gas, so I would really be totaly on my own.

I would LOVE some photos. My E-Mail is below

dave351W@hotmail.com

Or you can PM me any time.

 

[fury1]

well it depends on the condition of your clutch right now,I know my 06 300 showed zero signs of wear the basket had no grooves in it either,a friend who spun the clutch nut off told me he has never seen a basket with no wear on it after two hard seasons,but I rarely use the clutch,the bike just works so well in the tight stuff it idles along no problem,he told me it must have a hardened basket? it isnt really a big deal,you need part #1 part#2 and part#6 plus a waterpump gasket,right side case gasket and a clutch cover gasket,from the parts fische,kickstarter gear picture,and if you had the right tools and did everything at once you could do the entire job in an hour or so,I would order the parts and take it down and replace the worn parts at the same time as to not lose or misplace any parts. there wont be any flying parts when you take the cover off i promise! if you have access to an air gun it will be very easy to spin the nut off with a hit on the gun,the tool I think was made to bolt on the original spring holes and hold the basket from spinning while you use a ratchet and socket,I forgot the size but will edit this when I go look,its pretty big

 

[MattR]

Here is an example of the clutch hub holding tool. This is from my Husky manual, but it is the same for GasGas. You could buy one, but it would be easy to make one. That's my plan in the future...

Here is what you do:

• Find an old steel clutch plate (NOT the fiber one). The steel plate has the inner teeth to fully engage the hub.
• Weld a piece of flat steel bar stock for a simple handle.
• Bend handle as needed to clear the outer clutch basket.
• Slide the homemade wrench onto the inner hub (see Tool B in picture).
• Hold your homemade wrench and remove the nut with a socket.
• Note: This tool is useful for getting the correct nut torque during reassembly.

An air gun/impact wrench works fine (that is what I used previously), but I plan to make a simple steel plate holding wrench my next time around.


CLICK TO ENLARGE THE PICTURE:

 

[darren]

Your right i didnt metion the clutch oops

to undo the clutch basket center nut you will need a 30mm socket.

I normally undo the six cover screws and springs take off the cover and leave the plates in the basket.

Then there should be enough resistance to undo the basket nut.

After the nut is removed you can take the basket off with the plates as an complete assembly.

It does state in the manual that the clutch nut should have loctite on assembly.

 

[FFRDave]

Will clutch wear be evedent ?

Will clutch wear be evedent when I look at it ? I have looked at parts before and I thought they were just fine, but somwone else showed me where hte wear was.

I hope it will be easy to tell what parts of the clutch need to be replaced. It just seems wise to do it while I am in there.

 

[MattR]

The outer basket can get grooves wore into it where the fiber plates rub. The inner hub usually doesn't get grooves.
When it is apart, I would measure the thickness of the steel and fiber plates. The '06 shop manual has specs for minimum thickness.

Note: if they were swapped previously for an aftermarket set then the steel and fibers may have been different thickness from the OE versions. That's what happened with my DP clutch kit (from previous owner). The total stack height equals the same... just different relationship between steel and fiber plates.

 

[MattR]

Here are pics of my old KTM's clutch basket. Their basket was sh!t so you can see the wear marks easily. The GG clutches are excellent by comparison.

Outer basket with grooves:

Outer basket with the grooves "filed down". I filed them to buy me some life span.

Here are the light groove marks on the inner hub.

 

[sammyboy]

sorry to bring this up on my 1st post. i own a 07 ec 250 and im about to do the repair, im stuck on the 30mm clutch basket nut. manuel say's turn to the left im guessing it is a normal thread but it wont budge at all. will bring home a air gun from work and try it but want to make sure its a normal left spin to undo the nut!

thanks!!!

sam

 

[wence]

Not sure mate but I reckon it is a LH thread as we had the same problem when I pulled mine apart.
Cheers Mark

 

[Jiikoo811]

Its normal thread in my 2007 300ec ...should be normal also in 250 not left handed

 

[GMP]

Normal (right hand) thread, crank pinion is reverse (left hand) thread. It will spin off easy with a pneumaic, my 3/8" drive even takes it off.

 

[sammyboy]

thanks guys. took my snap-on electric gun home and came off with ease! normal thread. now im just waiting for my parts and gaskets

 

[GMP]

I had this problem on my '07 250, I think there were some soft parts that sneaked through. New parts fixed it right up, good luck.

 

[HenrikSchmidt]

are the internal sprockets for the Kickstarter made of the same stuff as their footpegs?? Both of my gassers feels like they lost half the tooth on the sprockets
was it in all cases nessesary to replace #6 or will #1 & #2 do it? I mean maybe #1 or #2 is the weak link here(just hoping as it's inexpensive compared to #6), was #6 also worn out on the ratchet gear on yours?

 

[Jakobi]

Mine feels a bit like this too. Like the 1st quarter of the stroke is wasted before you find resistance to kick through. Not sure its thats just the way they are but it feels like there's more stroke to be had. Its not bad enough to warrant digging yet.

 

[HenrikSchmidt]

Mine started out like that too, now I have a point on it where it's not engaging at all, but if I push the bike a little in gear I can find a point to make it engage, but it's really hard pushing the bike around when stalled in mud just in front of a big log, like it happend to me In a race last sunday

My EC is not that bad yet, and it have about 450hours on it,so it must have been kicked over alot of times, But my MC is my big problem and it only have 47hours on the clock, think maybe GMP is right about some soft parts that sneaked through, but then it happend In '05, '06 & '07.....

 

[Jakobi]

Mine started out like that too, now I have a point on it where it's not engaging at all, but if I push the bike a little in gear I can find a point to make it engage, but it's really hard pushing the bike around when stalled in mud just in front of a big log, like it happend to me In a race last sunday

My EC is not that bad yet, and it have about 450hours on it,so it must have been kicked over alot of times, But my MC is my big problem and it only have 47hours on the clock, think maybe GMP is right about some soft parts that sneaked through, but then it happend In '05, '06 & '07.....

Mm perhaps.

The kick starter has been the weak point in my bike. I had the teeth sheer off the actual shaft which were replaced under warranty. After this it came back with incorrect tension on the return spring and would come 90% back to the top and then need to be manually pushed the rest before going to original position. The shop never reported any wear to any of the internal teeth which I asked them to check when they did the last work. It doesn't seem to be getting any worse on mine. I just make sure to take it to tdc and feel resistance before kicking it in the guts. It always appears to engage at the same point for me. It just doesn't feel like its as high in its stroke as it could be.

I just checked mine and I think I've been running the kicker starter on the spline one set of teeth back. Moved it forwards so its more even with the head. Still same same always grabs at the right point, that point is just a bit higher in the stroke now. Seems normal for me.