2005 EC200 Continual RH Crank Seal Failure

N

NHtrailrider

New member
I have a 2005 EC200 that has eaten two RH crank seals in less than 1 hour of run time. The bike is burning trans oil.

I replaced the inner o-ring on the crank both times. The first replacement I used the all-balls kit and the second I used an OEM seal. The seal spacer did have a small groove in it that I sanded down smooth.

The bike has a fresh replated top end and new piston. It starts easy and idles well. It smokes excessively when on the gas in the mid-top range of the throttle. Both PV and crankcase vent hoses are open and unclogged.

I am now thinking it could be the center case gasket? Would a leaking center case gasket allow trans oil into the combustion chamber? Am I missing something or does anyone have any ideas?
 
If it's destroying right hand crank seals then that would lead me to believe the crank bearing on that side is failing.
 
+1. If it is going through crank seals in an hour do not wait to split the cases and replace the bearings. ie. I would not continue to run the bike, or you will be replacing more than bearings.

Crank may need new conrod and big end bearing if it has not been done, given the bikes age. Cheap insurance while you have the cases apart.
 
On my 2001 xc200 the oring in it was a thinner one than the 250/300 of that era and newer . If you sanded the crank bushing groove away you need to buy a new bushing . But you can’t cause they are discontinued. Sometimes you can turn it around and have crank seal wide in another area . I have hunted the globe for new crank bushings and find a pile of them from old Gasgas factory but they got damp and are no good . A 200 rieju uses one that is all same size except for the width . It’s too long .
 
Finally got around to rebuilding this bike.

New crank bearings, rebuilt crank, all new bottom end bearings.

I was able to source a new crank seal bushing from CPD a few months ago, so that was a win.

Question for everyone though; what depth do I install the crankseals? They were flush with the case when I disassembled it but I have seen other threads were people have driven them in all the way until the stop. Like a bearing.

I have installed them flush with the case but still have the bottom end open and can drive them in further if that is correct?
 
NHtrailrider said:
Finally got around to rebuilding this bike.

New crank bearings, rebuilt crank, all new bottom end bearings.

I was able to source a new crank seal bushing from CPD a few months ago, so that was a win.

Question for everyone though; what depth do I install the crankseals? They were flush with the case when I disassembled it but I have seen other threads were people have driven them in all the way until the stop. Like a bearing.

I have installed them flush with the case but still have the bottom end open and can drive them in further if that is correct?
Click to expand...
You got lucky with that crank bushing cause they told me about year ago I had bought last one . I have a few nos from moto-classic in the uk but they are no good . They got damp at some point so their polished finish is hurt . I don’t believe there is an exact crank seal depth . But be sure to get it installed uniform and not crooked . I have a nos set of ec200 engine cases that have all bearings and seals installed and can take a look . I’ve built many Gasgas engine and just installed crank seals like they were when I removed them .
 
Also another tip . I have a 2004 ec300. It was brand new and got flooded during hurricane Katrina . Took me two years to get it purchased from old dealer . Anyway rebuilt it and it slowly ate crankcase oil . Changed crank seals few times . Finally got around and pressurized chamber . There was a tiny porosity pit / line in the actual case where the crank seal pressed into. Oil would leak between outer edge of seal between it and case .
 
If you wanted to pressure up the chamber before you put rh side cover on this would be best time
 
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Hellcat said:
You got lucky with that crank bushing cause they told me about year ago I had bought last one . I have a few nos from moto-classic in the uk but they are no good . They got damp at some point so their polished finish is hurt . I don’t believe there is an exact crank seal depth . But be sure to get it installed uniform and not crooked . I have a nos set of ec200 engine cases that have all bearings and seals installed and can take a look . I’ve built many Gasgas engine and just installed crank seals like they were when I removed them .
Click to expand...
The part number from the catalogue states "RJ - CRANK SHAFT BUSHING EC200 , 0/000.480.9127". CPD has 4 in stock right now if anyone is looking for one.
 
Anders said:
If its too long, I guess you could just put it in the lathe and part it off to the right size? Or are they hardened ?
Click to expand...
Yes that was the option for the one that’s to long . I’m pretty sure they are hardened but they can be cut . I just have not needed one again yet
 
NHtrailrider said:
The part number from the catalogue states "RJ - CRANK SHAFT BUSHING EC200 , 0/000.480.9127". CPD has 4 in stock right now if anyone is looking for one.
Click to expand...
Cpd sent me a rieju ec200 crank bushing year or two ago said they thought it was same but it was longer . . It’s been while since I looked into this but quick search of the measurements of the 200 crank bushing - it’s correct for 200. But I needed one for 250/300 which is 17mm thick/wide and the 200 is 20mm .
 
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Hellcat said:
Cpd sent me a rieju ec200 crank bushing year or two ago said they thought it was same but it was longer . . It’s been while since I looked into this but quick search of the measurements of the 200 crank bushing - it’s correct for 200. But I needed one for 250/300 which is 17mm thick/wide and the 200 is 20mm .
Click to expand...
Hellcat said:
You got lucky with that crank bushing cause they told me about year ago I had bought last one . I have a few nos from moto-classic in the uk but they are no good . They got damp at some point so their polished finish is hurt . I don’t believe there is an exact crank seal depth . But be sure to get it installed uniform and not crooked . I have a nos set of ec200 engine cases that have all bearings and seals installed and can take a look . I’ve built many Gasgas engine and just installed crank seals like they were when I removed them .
Click to expand...
I have another question: I have the bottom end entirely together now and while torquing the crankshaft pinion I noticed that the crank can slide side to side in the cases. Is this normal?

Its not the connecting rod moving, its the entire crank assembly sliding side to side in the bearings. No up/down movement, just side to side. I slide it to each side and rotated the crank and it does not rub on anything but It seems strange that he crank can slide side to side in the cases?

This makes me wonder if I incorrectly installed the LH bearing collar (heated and installed on the crank)? I simply heated it in the over and slide it onto the crank all the way down the shaft until it stopped. The workshop manual did not state to do anything different.
 
The side to side movement was common in high mileage early 2000 era bikes we had around here . The one side crank bearing that is supposed to be pressed into case ends up not needing to be pressed anymore . Not much you can do with it . Motoclassic in the uk has some nos 200 engine cases . On our older bikes with this side to side movement / it never caused any failures . But it’s not correct
 
There was an early type of main bearing that was two separate pieces and the inner race kind of floated in the outer part. It was on the stator side of the engine. I know this as my '05 had this bearing. It was awesome when needing to split the cases but some seem to not like them.

2 piece crank bearing.jpg
 
SS109 said:
There was an early type of main bearing that was two separate pieces and the inner race kind of floated in the outer part. It was on the stator side of the engine. I know this as my '05 had this bearing. It was awesome when needing to split the cases but some seem to not like them.

View attachment 9871
Click to expand...

I love these bearings . They were expensive so Gasgas stopped using them at some point . My 2010 and 2011 had just ball bearings and they were even sealed on both sides so no premix oil got to the balls . Stupid design . Both bikes got the two piece bearing on that side . On another note I believe the 200 engines back then did not get the two piece bearing design at all . Not sure why . Would have to go double check parts diagrams . But pretty sure the 200 did not . The side to side in the 200 engines were the bearings sliding in the actual cases . My 2001 did this . Ran for years like this . I eventually got a 2004 engine and rebuilt it . It did not do it cause it was a low hour engine that was one of the 04 that had crank stuffer bolt back out and destroy engine . I also have a set of nos 200 engine cases on shelf that was sold to me by mistake as 250/300 cases . I needed the 250/300 cases for a build . Cases were boxed wrong from factory.
 
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I’ve bought a few times from
Moto-classic . He got all parts out factory when ktm bought out . Don’t order thru website though he told me . Email them with what you want and they will find best shipping and send you an invoice to pay . I’ve made a few big orders and shipping was fast and usually cheaper then shipping in USA
 
Yes the 200 did not use the two piece bearing . Just for info also in case you were wondering . The 200 engine cases are smaller in the crank flywheel area ( not width but the round part of flywheel are smaller on the 200 than the 250/300.
 

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