SS109
Active member
Some how I missed that this was about the 200. Oops.
2005 EC200 Continual RH Crank Seal Failure
- Thread starter NHtrailrider
- Start date
NHtrailrider
New member
I ordered oem bearings from cpd and the LH bearing is a two piece bearing. The collar when heated fit on the crank just fine.
On disassembly I found one piece bearings in the cases. I too, like the two piece bearings
Not sure why but the 200 engines did not originally come with the two piece bearing . They came with both side ball bearings
You’re still going to have your side to side play with your crank . It’s the engine cases themselves . Not the bearings or crank
NHtrailrider
New member
So got the engine back together and it’s running poorly in the low range. Very low power off idle. Like I cannot get going again when stalled on a hill. The bike coughs and dies. I am thinking I put too thick a base gasket in on assembly? The kit came with two and I put both in.
Measured my squish tonight…1.86mm. It’s within gas gas factory spec but could this give me low power off idle?
How about static timing? I believe the bike has a 2k-2 ignition. (Wires coming out of the stator at 10 o’clock position). I set the static timing with the “m5 timing screw” as referenced in the manual. Could I have retarded the timing too much?
Have never had a bike coughs and die from low power on a small hill like this. Bike runs well in the midrange and top. Power seems normal there. Revs cleanly.
Measured my squish tonight…1.86mm. It’s within gas gas factory spec but could this give me low power off idle?
How about static timing? I believe the bike has a 2k-2 ignition. (Wires coming out of the stator at 10 o’clock position). I set the static timing with the “m5 timing screw” as referenced in the manual. Could I have retarded the timing too much?
Have never had a bike coughs and die from low power on a small hill like this. Bike runs well in the midrange and top. Power seems normal there. Revs cleanly.
Anders
Gold Level Site Supporter
I run a much tighter squish. But on the other side, I have also cut the head to get the correct compression with that low squish. These engines come with too high squish bands. They run better and are easier to jet properly if you cut the head and make it right
There are some threads here about it. If you don't find them, I can look up my notes at home and come back with some details.NHtrailrider
New member
So I disassembled the topend and remeasured the base gaskets I installed. (.9mm). I removed the thinner gasket(.35mm) and left the thicker one.
Remeasured the squish and it is now 1.5mm. I think I am happy with this. I have not cut the head so I think this is a safe place to be.
Secondly, I have a bin of parts from a neighbor and it had a really nice stock exhaust in it labeled for a 200 so I installed it after the rebuild because my 200 pipe has seen better days. . Upon further inspection it is likely a 250/300 pipe. It is definitely a different shape then the 200 pipe I removed. Could this have been contributing to my lack of low end power?
Remeasured the squish and it is now 1.5mm. I think I am happy with this. I have not cut the head so I think this is a safe place to be.
Secondly, I have a bin of parts from a neighbor and it had a really nice stock exhaust in it labeled for a 200 so I installed it after the rebuild because my 200 pipe has seen better days. . Upon further inspection it is likely a 250/300 pipe. It is definitely a different shape then the 200 pipe I removed. Could this have been contributing to my lack of low end power?
Anders
Gold Level Site Supporter
The short answer is yes, probably. Although I do not know, I have never tried to use anything else than pipes made for the 200. But the pipe is a big part of the equation when it comes to engine torque as a function of rpm.
Years ago fmf supplied a different pipe for the 200 . The 250/300 pipe was same . Recently I bought a new pipe for my 2011 250 and it did not look anything like the fmf pipe that was on it . They had changed the whole design . Cpd in Texas gets fmf to make a few batches of pipes every now and then for older bikes . Or they did while back
NHtrailrider
New member
I have about three hours of run time now on the full motor rebuild. Bike runs poorly off idle and smokes excessively still. Drained gear case oil and have lost 275cc. So at this point I am at a loss. Complete top and bottom end rebuild, all new gaskets and seals, nothing spared and still burns gear are oil.
Only thing I am thinking is my method of installing RH crank seals? I install them flush with the case. Should I be driving them in until they stop?
Only thing I am thinking is my method of installing RH crank seals? I install them flush with the case. Should I be driving them in until they stop?
It’s time to get the kit to put about 2 psi into combustion area . Remove pipe and carb . Kit comes with plugs to plug these off . Plug the vent hoses from power valve area . Use compression tester adapter with shraider valve removed from it . Put about 2 psi into combustion area thru adapter hose you have installed into spark plug hole. . Have the rh side cover off engine . You will find your leak . I had a 300 that constantly ate oil like yours and it was leaking on the outer area between crank seal and engine case . I used a sealant with next seal install and it never leaked again. .
I use a paint gun regulator
Anders
Gold Level Site Supporter
If there was a (FMF or other) pipe for the 15 model EC200 available I would be interested.
Have you checked cpd ?
Anders
Gold Level Site Supporter
They have pipes for 250/300, but no mention of the 200.
Anders
Gold Level Site Supporter
Could it be a leak somewhere else? are the gasket faces all good? Could it leak between the case halves?
NHtrailrider
New member
Picking up plugs for the intake/ exhaust to run a leak down test. New center case gasket when I rebuilt it so I hope it’s not that but could be.
What interesting is that this problem has been the same since before the full rebuild. I posted about this and the suggestions were that the crank bearings were bad. Replaced all the bearings and seals….still burns gear oil.
Only thing I have not changed because it doesn’t appear to leaking is the waterpump seal. Could that cause gearcase oil burning? The oil is not milky at all. In fact it’s black and smells of fuel after 3 hours of run time.
What interesting is that this problem has been the same since before the full rebuild. I posted about this and the suggestions were that the crank bearings were bad. Replaced all the bearings and seals….still burns gear oil.
Only thing I have not changed because it doesn’t appear to leaking is the waterpump seal. Could that cause gearcase oil burning? The oil is not milky at all. In fact it’s black and smells of fuel after 3 hours of run time.
Call and talk to owner at cpd about pipes . Also reach out to fmf and see if they have a difference or all the same now .
There is a few different center case gaskets . Kits used to come with all gaskets so you would have more then one and had to check . Pressure test will get you the answer . Don’t put more than 2-3 psi or you will pop out crank seals possibly. I chased this on my 300 years ago and like I said it was leaking between crank seal and engine case . This bike was new but was flooded during Katrina . I ended up using gasket maker on outer part
Of seal to case . The pressure test will find your issue
There is a few different center case gaskets . Kits used to come with all gaskets so you would have more then one and had to check . Pressure test will get you the answer . Don’t put more than 2-3 psi or you will pop out crank seals possibly. I chased this on my 300 years ago and like I said it was leaking between crank seal and engine case . This bike was new but was flooded during Katrina . I ended up using gasket maker on outer part
Of seal to case . The pressure test will find your issue
NHtrailrider
New member
Got a leak tester hooked up tonight and found a hole in the case. Possibly the previous owner blew a piston and punctured the case? In didn’t notice anything on the inside of the case when I had them split. Maybe a failure in the casting?
Any suggestions on how to repair the hole?
Split cases and weld? Will epoxy hold up?
Any suggestions on how to repair the hole?
Split cases and weld? Will epoxy hold up?
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Casting flaw looks like to me . Find a local rep to you for Belzona . It’s a German company that makes two part metal repair . They have different applications for different environments. Get the stuff for dirty metals . They sell it to fix engine block damages . This stuff makes j. B weld look like sheet rock mud . It’s used in industrial applications. But it’s expensive . $180-$200 for smallest amount . It’s a lot though . Or buy a new set of engine cases for around $300 from moto - classic in the uk .
