2011 EC250 to 300???

[skraMnoR]

I have a 2011 EC250. I am a novice rider and I ride many tight trails. I LOVE the way the bike handles but I feel I would like more low end chugability. I have ridden a KTM 300, Husaberg 300 (ktm) and the Husvarna 300 two strokes. I like the characteristics of those motors. I like predictability and smoother transition as the power comes on. I am a low RPM type rider and my 250 seems high strung.

What would be involved with upgrading my 250 to a 300? Is there a kit? Is it even worth it? Should I just sell the 250 and buy a Gas Gas 300?

 

[GMP]

Cylinder, head, piston kit, gaskets, jetting. Have you tried jetting the 250 differently? Gearing? Head mod adds bottom and is cheap too. Both of my 250s can crawl like a 300 just above idle if needed, even with light flywheels. I do it a lot when riding with my 10 yr old.

 

[skraMnoR]

I don't mess with carbs so I would have to take it to someone for jetting. Everyone says its real easy but I find that many people spend tons of time discussing and changing jetting and still not getting it right.

I am trying to avoid putting too much money into the 250 if in the end, I still have to sell and buy a 300. If the mods are inexpensive enough, I would consider.

Any particular head mods you can recommend?

 

[Jakobi]

You need to learn to jet your bike mate. Even if you buy a 300 it will need to be jetted correctly to get the most out of it. As Glenn has indicated, the jetting can make the difference between your 250 feeling like a 300 and a 125.

My 250 will still lug off idle just as clean and torquey as my 300 did. Its the power below the band thats not as strong, and then once on the pipe things are a bit more similar. The 250 does feel more aggressive, or that it needs to be ridden more aggressively to go as fast. It sounds like you'd like the characteristics of the 300 for what you do though. You can get a kit from gofasters which will set you back around $800 USD plus fluids and gaskets, then labour if you're going to have someone else do the work.

Jetting your bike yourself is a reasonably cheap exercise. A new tyre will cost you more, and the jetting will make your bike much more ridable than a new tyre will.

For head mods - http://www.gasgasrider.org/html/measuring_squish.html

 

[AZRickD]

Both of my 250s can crawl like a 300 just above idle if needed, even with light flywheels.

I have all of those mods on my 250, and while I can make my 52-toothed 250 crawls down low quite well -- it ain't nothin' like even a base, non-modded 300, which will do the same thing one or sometimes two gears higher.

That's why I'm going 300 for 2013.

 

[skraMnoR]

I have all of those mods on my 250, and while I can make my 52-toothed 250 crawls down low quite well -- it ain't nothin' like even a base, non-modded 300, which will do the same thing one or sometimes two gears higher.

That's why I'm going 300 for 2013.

That's kinda my point. Why mod a 250 to run "like a 300" when maybe I could just by the 300? The 3 300/2T bikes I have ridden directly after riding my 250, were all bone stock. Not jetted or modded.

 

[skraMnoR]

.....

Jetting your bike yourself is a reasonably cheap exercise. .....

For head mods - http://www.gasgasrider.org/html/measuring_squish.html

I may look into jetting myself but from what I have seen, there is a bit of guess work involved. Many guys seem to continually try changes. I am more of a objective person and less subjective. I can wrench on a bike all day and not run into any problems I can't handle. I currently have 6 bikes that I keep running. What I am terrible at is guessing which variable (jet sizes, clip positions) to even start off with. Then there is mixtures to consider and altitude and humidity. Etc. I will most likely just pay someone to do it.

I prefer EFI in my motorcycles. I know I have to deal with carbs for now if I want to stay in the 2T camp.

Thanks for that link and the reply!

 

[Jakobi]

That's kinda my point. Why mod a 250 to run "like a 300" when maybe I could just by the 300? The 3 300/2T bikes I have ridden directly after riding my 250, were all bone stock. Not jetted or modded.

They may have been jetted during predelivery if not by the owner themselves. I know I'm always harping on about jetting and such, but being a mechanical engine, fuelling is a major element in how your bike runs and the power it produces. Leave the choke on all day and go for a ride and see how it feels. Probably bad, but thats not to say your bike isn't already running bad compared to how it could be.

You talk about modding your bike. I'm talking about working with what you have. A few moments of your time and maybe $30 of your coin. A good excuse to take the bike for a casual ride with a mate, and a few beers after. The beers might cost more than the jetting experience. $30 vs $800 for a top end, which will still need to be jetted, plus time to install vs whatever $$ you will lose on trade to a new bike.

I'm not talking about going over the top investing to try and make your 250 run like a 300. I'm just saying give it a chance to maybe see if you can make it fit your mould. If after that you still aren't happy with it then you haven't lost anything and the 300 will still be waiting for you.

 

[Jakobi]

Jetting is objective too. With a little research you'll find some good starting points in the jetting section. We're talking about moving a small clip on the needle each direction and riding to see what feels better.

If you want to walk the easy path a JD jet kit comes with 2 needles, the mains and pilots you need, and even a suggested starting point. They cost a bit more than OEM but GMP has loved it in his. Others have had good results too, and if you go to the 300 you can carry the kit over too.

Its really a case of the best you've experienced is the best you've had and until you start to try other things you don't know what you've been missing. Sometimes the difference can be night and day.

 

[skraMnoR]

..... until you start to try other things you don't know what you've been missing. Sometimes the difference can be night and day.

Thanks! I will look into it straight away! I guess I could always post here for some tips!

 

[Jakobi]

Here's a thread to get you started. http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12253

 

[gasser]

I have a 2011 EC250. I am a novice rider and I ride many tight trails. I LOVE the way the bike handles but I feel I would like more low end chugability. I have ridden a KTM 300, Husaberg 300 (ktm) and the Husvarna 300 two strokes. I like the characteristics of those motors. I like predictability and smoother transition as the power comes on. I am a low RPM type rider and my 250 seems high strung.

What would be involved with upgrading my 250 to a 300? Is there a kit? Is it even worth it? Should I just sell the 250 and buy a Gas Gas 300?

Both the 250 and the 300 gassers are equally capable in our part of the country - if you like to lug the engine you'll be happier with the 300 - if you want it spinning faster you'll like the 250 more, I've switched back and forth twice. Presently I'm on a 250 and plan to keep it that way - I just seem to have more fun. I live just over an hour east of you. If you want to switch to a 300 I have a 300 head and a nearly new replated 300 cylinder you're welcome to try. If you like the 300 better we could work some kind of trade on parts. - Ken 931-498-5113

 

[GMP]

Sometimes the 300 is a little too much off the bottom when your racing, sometimes the stock 250 is not enough. Also, power makes a bike seem heavier in the tight stuff and in tight turns, torque will straighten a bike out. If your not a racer, then the 300 is a great choice, it will climb a wall in the wrong gear. For me though (and others) its just more excess juice to manage, and every little tug on your arms from that strong low end takes its toll at the end of the day. The 250 has enough for me once its jetted right, a head mod is good too but not a "must do now" thing. They are also easier to jet, vibrate a bit less, and rev quicker. You ride on the pipe more often, where with the 300 you spend a lot of time trying to avoid it. I've ridden them and owned/raced a KTM300 and I'm absolutely sure I'm faster on a 250. But thats just me and everybody is different, and why there are both bikes.

Point is don't just dump the 250 because you don't wan't to set it up for you, a 300 could be more work.

 

[skraMnoR]

I am going to pursue the jetting path 1st as it is inexpensive enough. If that starts moving the performance characteristics into the right direction, I will continue on with nothing really lost. If not, I will pursue the 300 swap. I really do like the way my bike handles and feels. It just a lot more work for a rider like me doing 5mph through the tight woods. The 300 riders are chugging along and I am feathering my clutch all day trying to stay in some power. Hopefully its just the jetting like many of the experienced people here seem to feel.

To get an idea of how slow I ride and listen to my bike check out my helmet cam footage from this past weekend. Maybe some of you guys can hear right off if something doesn't seem right. Remember I am a novice!

CLICK HERE for the youtube vid.

 

[GMP]

What are you geared at? I can roll through the woods without going for the clutch. With the 300s, you may find you use the clutch to reduce the power. 13/51 is good for a strong running 250. 13/52 if you climb a lot but it can be a little much in first if you can't make the speed for second.

Resist the teptation to throw $$ at the problem, just ride, get seat time and experience, confidence and speed follow. That trail is not tight at all, is that the NETRA Boneyard?

Don't take this the wrong way, just trying to help.

 

[Jakobi]

Exactly what Glenn just said is what I was going to say, particularly about the clutch and the comparison with the 300. Regarding the gearing I have run 13-50 on both the 300 and 250. The 13-48 was a touch tall in first for the tight things. My 250 will easily pull 2nd gear at walking pace through single and up hills without clutch. It doesn't have enough oomp to stand up on the back wheel or brake loose without some clutch. First gear on the othe hand is super responsive. Pick the pace up a bit and second becomes very usable. I imagine 13-52 would take things a bit further and make 2nd even better for crawling around. In my experience the 250 climbs just as well as 300. It just take a bit more gear selection.

That trail looks prime and not overly tight in the grand scheme of things. It didn't appear that you struggled in any of it either. As Glenn said, the benefit of the 300 is that you can ride a gear higher, but the down side is that all that extra torque can become bothersome when you don't need it.

 

[skraMnoR]

The trail got tight enough for my taste. I enjoy the open stuff much better. There is a section of the video where we were out in the field just zipping around. THAT is what I really like. Unfortunately much of the riding in middle TN has woods and trails.

So... Here is the plan...

1. Jetting
2. Gearing
3. Researching a larger power valve cover
4. definitely getting a Rekluse! I really enjoy them!

Then possible a cc change.

Thanks for all the input guys! I continue to ride and practice. Hopefully the decisions will make more sense, the better I get.

Now I have to demystify the jetting equation!

 

[GMP]

Just ride more and in more places, the tightest spots on that trail in the video will seem like the desert soon enough. Tight is when you have to wiggle your bars through, ask your buddies to take you there. Thats where the 250 will shine.

 

[skraMnoR]

The place in that video has dozens of spots too narrow for handlebars. We had to wiggle through. I just don't have them on the video. I don't care for tight trails myself. To me it's like having a race car and staying in the driveway.

I like open dirt like this one!!

https://contour.com/stories/file0107--26

 

[Jakobi]

I just like to ride! The more technical trails are where you really start refining your skills, which evidently carry over to the more open sections too. At the end of the day its all about enjoying your time on the bike. With a few small changes I'm confident you'll be enjoying the 250 a lot more.

Between you and me, the 300 top end vibrated a whole lot more. It was the open trails in the higher gears where it would really buzz you too. After a transport section I would always think how much more I'd really love this bike if I was a woman.