2012 TXT Pro All Electric

[boyscout]

Its fine to develop new technologies, but do do it under the lie of being green. A battery is a mini toxic waste dump, and costs more energy to produce than it will ever save in its lifetime. And don't bring it to market until its at least as good as the technology its trying replace.

The electric vehicle is not green. Right now the batteries in a Prius need to be replaced after about six years of use, at a cost of about six thousand dollars. It is a disposable car. And it doesn't get better gas millage than its internal combustion counterpart.

The most green vehicle is one that has already been built and that you can drive for a very longtime.

 

[GMP]

I'm glad some of you guys see through this BS. I have nothing against developing this new technology, BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THE TAXPAYER in the form of a subsidy, and not as part of a policy that cripples the acquisition of our current energy resources. As I recall, Spain's green energy programs did not help its economic situation. Let companies invest an amount that the market sees fit and let it mature naturally. When its ready it will work. You can't operate at a loss in this day and age to make some special interest group happy.

 

[lankydoug]

Its fine to develop new technologies, but do do it under the lie of being green. A battery is a mini toxic waste dump, and costs more energy to produce than it will ever save in its lifetime. And don't bring it to market until its at least as good as the technology its trying replace.

The electric vehicle is not green. Right now the batteries in a Prius need to be replaced after about six years of use, at a cost of about six thousand dollars. It is a disposable car. And it doesn't get better gas millage than its internal combustion counterpart.

The most green vehicle is one that has already been built and that you can drive for a very longtime.

I agree with everything except what the most green vehicle is and I'd have to give 1st place to a bicycle or a horse but I doubt that the "green" people would care to ride either one to work everyday.

 

[boyscout]

Good point, the most efficient machine ever created is a man on a bicycle.

 

[GMP]

I would like to have seen that engineering effort and expense put into bringing a well developed, refined, and robust DI system to the enduro bikes in a competitive timeframe. JMO.

 

[Keg]

...the most advanced battery can only hold 1/25th of the energy of the same weight of gasoline. I guess if batteries get 25 times better they will be on a level playing field assuming gasoline engine research stops to wait for batteries to catch up.

According to this wikipedia spec: Battery is 9mj/kg and petrol is 43.2Mj/kg, that is less than 5 times as much, not 25.

But electric motors are 1/3 the weight and a much better torque/power curve.

We are at the tipping point where nano-string battery technology will not increase battery output by double, but by 10 times.

GMP, you can't make petrol motors green even if their is green energy available, but you can plug an electric bike into a water/solar/wind power station if available - that is my point.

 

[GMP]

I understand your point, but its all theoretical and not economically self sustaining at this point in time. Over here, they want to waste millions putting a wind farm off the NJ coast that will generate a mere fraction of the power required locally.

Like what was said here, there is absolutely nothing "green" about electric vehicles, solar cells, and batteries when you understand the whole picture form manufacture to disposal. Only the nice, clean parts get played up by the proponents, for political and monetary gains (Solyndra and GE come to mind)

 

[husley]

Electric motors achieve maximum torque at 0 rpm on up. For trials, that would be a good thing.

There is a guy who I compete with here in CA who converted a Montesa to an electric motor. It seems to do well.

 

[GMP]

If it works, and its an advantage, then yes by all means go for it. As long as its not a solution in search of a problem. The company is after all in the business of building competition motorcycles.

 

[GasGasDreamer]

didnt the trials bikes get banned from competing with the enduros at the same time during endrocross? i think the trials has their own laps but not with the enduros. i did go to the endurocross here in las vegas but for some reason my memory is not clear and if i remember right heinkens actually improve your memory and looks and personality.

 

[lankydoug]

According to this wikipedia spec: Battery is 9mj/kg and petrol is 43.2Mj/kg, that is less than 5 times as much, not 25.



I would be interested in reading the link you found on Wicki. The guy that gave me the 25:1 number was talking about BTU content produced by the same weight battery vs one gallon of gasoline. A internal combustion is not very efficient as it loses most of it's energy through heat loss so maybe your 5:1 ratio comes from a different way of measuring.

On another note you can pour a gallon of fuel in a tank much faster than recharging a battery.

Let's face it, we will all favor the battery when it is better and even at 5:1 it isn't even close.

 

[GMP]

didnt the trials bikes get banned from competing with the enduros at the same time during endrocross? i think the trials has their own laps but not with the enduros. i did go to the endurocross here in las vegas but for some reason my memory is not clear and if i remember right heinkens actually improve your memory and looks and personality.

I was referring to Trials competition, not comparing it to an enduro bike. If anything the electric motor has the best chance in trials. It has a long, long way to go before its anywhere near a current GG 2-stroke woods bike.

 

[trialsridr]

Its fine to develop new technologies, but do do it under the lie of being green. A battery is a mini toxic waste dump, and costs more energy to produce than it will ever save in its lifetime. And don't bring it to market until its at least as good as the technology its trying replace.

The electric vehicle is not green. Right now the batteries in a Prius need to be replaced after about six years of use, at a cost of about six thousand dollars. It is a disposable car. And it doesn't get better gas millage than its internal combustion counterpart.

The most green vehicle is one that has already been built and that you can drive for a very longtime.

I have worked for a dealer group in Ohio for seven years that owns two Toyota stores in large metro areas . I don't know much, but I do know this .. Of all the cars we service we have not replaced one battery in a gen 2 (2004-2010). Prius..Not one. We have seen many company vehicles that use prius and the occasional taxi prius . Many with 300 to 450,000 miles. I'm not sure If that qualifies as a disposable car. And I don't know of any gas cars currently that get 50-60 mpg. They did their homework and their technology is sound . When it comes to my trials bike I'll keep my gas engine. Im not a green person so that wouldnt enter into the equation , But If I wanted a durable car with great gas mileage the prius is hard to beat

 

[lankydoug]

I have worked for a dealer group in Ohio for seven years that owns two Toyota stores in large metro areas . I don't know much, but I do know this .. Of all the cars we service we have not replaced one battery in a gen 2 (2004-2010). Prius..Not one. We have seen many company vehicles that use prius and the occasional taxi prius . Many with 300 to 450,000 miles. I'm not sure If that qualifies as a disposable car. And I don't know of any gas cars currently that get 50-60 mpg. They did their homework and their technology is sound . When it comes to my trials bike I'll keep my gas engine. Im not a green person so that wouldnt enter into the equation , But If I wanted a durable car with great gas mileage the prius is hard to beat

If the battery fails on a Prius do you have to replace it or can you keep driving on the gasoline engine?

 

[trialsridr]

Yes you would have to replace the battery. Toyota has lowered the list price to $2299 for a replacement battery .Eventually when there becomes a demand for them, no doubt competition will drive the prices lower. Sorry to derail this thread . There is alot of confusion and rumors about the technology . I hope gasgas finds a niche market for this bike and the technology evolves . It would be fun to play with one around the city, I doubt it would be something you would want to compete in an event at this point .a few years from now .. Who knows ?

 

[Moto7man]

Holeshot on Electric Bike at AMA HS

I am a member of Florida Trial Riders and this link was posted in their forum. I couldn't believe it until I saw this video....WOW!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHKXP_YA40s&feature=youtu.be

 

[Moto7man]

Here is a different angle,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We51sAmCr4I&feature=related

 

[john01]

WOW is right! How long can that thing run on a charge? Never seen so many dirt naps and he sure did pick good lines to get around them.

 

[roostafish]

If the battery fails on a Prius do you have to replace it or can you keep driving on the gasoline engine?

I have a Prius (2001, before the batteries were upgraded). My HV battery failed, and it failed slowly, giving plenty of warning before stranding me (which, it never did, it just went into limp mode). I am a techy person (and work in electrical substations, so am familiar with high voltage), so I disassembled the battery pack, load tested the batteries, and replaced two bad cells (which I found on ebay cheap). I am not scared of the technology at all and it isn't as high tech as it's made out to be. I keep saying when my Prius finally wears out, I'll get another, new one. I also am not "green" at all. It's just a good car.

I would love to get one of the all electric trials bikes.

 

[modifier]

The human population is made up of Luddites, that shout a lot, or the majority that just passes though doing nothing but consuming and excreting and a very few visionaries who actually make thing happen and allow us to live in a world where we aren't still cutting our steaks with stone knives.

There are so many alternative renewable sources of energy available that getting stuck on the idea that only 1 technology needs to be pursued or that if 1 doesn't work now it will never work or that the technology of today is as good as it gets, puts you in either category 1 or 2. Alternatives are suppressed by those who make trillions off of fossil fuels and everything built around them and by those who buy into their hype.

If they can get a light weight battery to last 60 to 90 minutes and be quick change in the time it would take to refuel I'd buy one in a heartbeat providing it doesn't cost twice as much. Which it won't in time. I have no attachment to shifting a transmission or the noise an engine makes and I don't see why anyone would.

Disposal of the batteries is a real issue but perhaps we will be able to make them so they don't wear out, or at least last for thousands of recharge cycles. Probably so.

The technology of 100 years hence will make it look like we had just barley invented the wheel in 2013.