2013 250R overvolting

Jakobi

Jakobi

Super Moderator
Would like some help from the tech savvy folk. Neil?

I've noticed for a while now that the voltage reading on the trail tech unit ramps right up and causes issues with the backing light dropping out as it reaches excessive volts.

Recently, I blew a lightbulb so it was time to really start digging.

Pulled out the multi meter and sure enough the volts are running from 12V upward depending on revs. Checked the ground/earth on the regulator by using its earth wire/tab where it contacts the frame to ground while checking the volts.

Ordered a replacement regulator, bolted it all up, and same goes again. Its still reading excessively.

Where do I look next?
 
that's queer, they should be pretty simple, maybe the later ones are more clever & contain a feedback connection that is in the wrong position to be doing its thang. How many wires out of the '13 regulator?
 
2 wire. Same same as the older ones.

One feeds into the yellow power circuit (to be regulated), and the other simply dumps excess voltage to ground.

Did some more testing, and with the headlight running it 'appears' that the voltage is then regulated to 14V. I didn't hold it open to see if it would go higher. Switching the headlight off it pings up between 16-20V quite easily.
 
Jakobi said:
2 wire. Same same as the older ones.

One feeds into the yellow power circuit (to be regulated), and the other simply dumps excess voltage to ground.

Did some more testing, and with the headlight running it 'appears' that the voltage is then regulated to 14V. I didn't hold it open to see if it would go higher. Switching the headlight off it pings up between 16-20V quite easily.
Click to expand...

Mine does similar. If my take my tail light off, it'll do weird things, and if I disconnect my headlight, my tail light only half works (only one side of LEDs work), and climbs above 14v easily.. My solution was to leave my headlight on... Not ideal, but eh.
 
Interesting.

I noticed in some video of a mates that the tail light did the half only thing when I had the headlight turned off. Makes me think the whole circuit is relying on the headlight to control the voltage, and that my blown to pieces headlight may have been caused by something else (like blunt force impact).
 
My 2013 250 does this, It started just blowing the bulb now it actually explodes the bulb, shatters the glass like I hit it with a hammer!!!! No idea why, ive tried two new stock regulators and a trail tech adjustable regulator, that doesn't fix the problem. I have been through the wiring loom, stator etc etc. Drives me mad. I would really love to know how to fix this. Ive spent hours trying to get to the bottom of this and im stuck, had others look at it too, no idea whats wrong.

http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16717
 
rubber Jonny said:
My 2013 250 does this, It started just blowing the bulb now it actually explodes the bulb, shatters the glass like I hit it with a hammer!!!! No idea why, ive tried two new stock regulators and a trail tech adjustable regulator, that doesn't fix the problem. I have been through the wiring loom, stator etc etc. Drives me mad. I would really love to know how to fix this. Ive spent hours trying to get to the bottom of this and im stuck, had others look at it too, no idea whats wrong.

http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16717
Click to expand...

Wow, that's full on. Mine doesn't blow globes, and I'm running a 55/60w globe I'm the stock headlight. I'm guessing it has to go through the headlight to somehow regulate voltage, but that's a pretty piss poor way to do it. Mine is registered, so the headlight and tail light stay on it mostly, so it's not a huge issue.

My speedo resets itself very regularly, and does the whole 888 display thing... I've been to trying to figure out why, now I'm thinking good ol' GG/Fantic wiring..
 
That's definitely weird. The regulator is very simple and works just like Jake said (two wires, sinks excess voltage to ground).

This makes me think the wiring on the kickstart bikes is connected in an odd way. Is the regulator the same part number as the older bikes? Did you try swapping in the unit from your 2010 Jake?

I like to think the yellow wire is common throughout the bike, but this may not be the case. It's as if the regulator is only in the circuit once the headlight is turned on. This could explain the odd tail light function.

Do we know for sure that the yellow wire out of the stator connects to the regulator? When I studied my 2011 harness I noticed some multiple wire joints inside the cover tubing. A couple of them even had different colours terminated together.

Is there a good newer model wiring diagram in one of the manuals?
 
The only recent wiring schematics are for the E start models.

Not 100% sure that it connects to the yellow straight from the stator, but its deinitely connected into the yellow circuit.

I haven't checked the reg from the old bike. The new regulator I received had a different number stamped on the side, but both are leoneli 12V AC regs, both 2 wire.

The 2010/13 both appear wired in the same way where it feels from the harness to the chasis and is grounded against the frame, mounted behind the rhs rad.

I should probably disconnect the reg/remove the ground and test the voltage unregulated.
 
Queer. So where are you measuring this 20v? Does the regulator perhaps require insertion in a different place if it is acting through the headlight? Heck I haven't gotten around to reconnecting mine (light) so I've never checked.
 
I'm sure it goes over 20V when holding it pinned. A few turns of the throttle easily see 20V (with headlight turned off)

Like rubber johnny, my headlight had blew the complete side out of it. Glass spread everywhere. So while it seems to read 14V on the stand, I think its likely overvolting still, but the headlight is just drawing the excess volts away to a certain degree.

Have confirmed the earth, have tried 2 regs. Part of me wonders if it'll work with the blinkers connected. Wouldn't be surprised if it needs a full circuit..
 
I've measured the voltage at the red wire that feeds to the trailtech, at a yellow terminal for the horn, and at the regulator itself.
 
My bike never had blinkers fitted you don't need them to be road legal on a dirt bike in Europe. It should work without them.

this is how they come in the UK, 100% road legal as in the pic. you only need blinkers and all the other stuff on bike that carry a passenger. All it has from new is headlight with high and low, tail light, brake light and horn. I know other people with the same bike who don't have blinkers and do not have regulator problems so you can rule that theory out.

20131004_113652_zpsf287f781.jpg
 
I find it hard to believe we all have faulty regulators though. A bad batch possibly, but then a bad trail tech reg too. Has to be something else going on. I might try disconnecting as much of the loom as possible and see if I can narrow it down some.

Bloody big list of things going on at the moment though.
 
Not sure if this is relevant or not but on my 11' the Trailtech starts to flicker on high revs . I also recently lost the mid beam on my front light, high beam still works but I never measured the voltage. Could this have something to do with the cabling ? I changed the stock/road legal to the simpler model .
 
We know the voltage will increase with RPMs. Nothing new here. If we assume that the regulator is in the correct yellow circuit (from the stator), the only thing left is the unit itself.

It's not a matter of current, the problem is excess voltage. If you have a big enough load on the sytem, you can pull the voltage down. This isn't much good because a high wattage bulb will barely glow at idle.

That makes me believe that the regulator itself does not have the capacity to clip the voltage properly. As I recall Rubber Johnny used an aftermarket regulator and still had some trouble. I think his issue was mostly a bad ground so the regulator was not in the circuit.

If Jake tries the 2010 regulator on the newer bike that might tell us if the unit has changed. If there is no difference, has the stator been changed?

What about the frame construction of the newer bikes? Is there a ground path problem? Was the ground better on the older bikes because of the head stays?
 
building off what Neil said, and with little to none experience with vehicle electronics could it be a bad ground? What if the powder coat is not conductive enough?
 
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