2014 4t
- Thread starter BEEBOB
- Start date
The older ones ~2006 used to come with a thermo fan standard. Don't know about the new ones
Ask 'gasgasbloke', he has a 2011
gasgasbloke
New member
I don't know why Beta would want to do that. They are direct competitors.
It seems to me that the Sherco 4T motors look a lot like the old GG motor that was under development back in 2000-2002. From a family tree perspective, would that make the Sherco 4T the true GG 4T?
Sherco was formed by a group of expatriated GG employees. My theory is that is they took the true 2002 GG 4T design with them and then we got the DRZ copy that powered the FSE models. I can't remember his name, but the FSE motor was drawn by some young American engineer that GG had hired.
It seems to me that the Sherco 4T motors look a lot like the old GG motor that was under development back in 2000-2002. From a family tree perspective, would that make the Sherco 4T the true GG 4T?
Sherco was formed by a group of expatriated GG employees. My theory is that is they took the true 2002 GG 4T design with them and then we got the DRZ copy that powered the FSE models. I can't remember his name, but the FSE motor was drawn by some young American engineer that GG had hired.
Possible, yes, but I still don't see why Beta would want to assist GG. The relationship between KTM and Beta goes back a ways, I believe that Beta licensed the RFS motor design from KTM, and built it themselves. Older KTM 125's have Beta stamped right on the insides of their centercases. The two companies have been "coopertitioning" with each other for a long time.
I'm not wanting to argue about this, but if I was at Beta I would keep all my production capability for 4T motors aimed for the Betas and let GG deal with either developing their own motor or sourcing them from Yamaha or whoever else they can get them from. The new Beta 2T's are a direct assault to GG main market. Beta got into the 2T market to sell more bikes, it's just happened that is the same space occupied by the majority of the GG's made, so it impacts GG more than say the KTM/Husaberg juggernaut, or Husky, because both of them have a more diversified lineup (4T and 2T).
I'm not wanting to argue about this, but if I was at Beta I would keep all my production capability for 4T motors aimed for the Betas and let GG deal with either developing their own motor or sourcing them from Yamaha or whoever else they can get them from. The new Beta 2T's are a direct assault to GG main market. Beta got into the 2T market to sell more bikes, it's just happened that is the same space occupied by the majority of the GG's made, so it impacts GG more than say the KTM/Husaberg juggernaut, or Husky, because both of them have a more diversified lineup (4T and 2T).
Beta makes a lot of engines and parts for several companies. It would be wise to diversify the market for their products as the KTM company getting more and more absorbed into the indian based company I wouldnt be shocked to see that company getting the nod to supply the mills for the small bikes.
Actually, the young american engineer entered the scene in the '05 timeframe or so and fixed up the motor - it had quite a few issues and he can't be laid blame for how it started out....
jeff
Jeff, that's what I heard too. Which reinforces the case I set forth earlier, that GG had a major "brain drain" on 4T technology to Sherco. GG did make a cool side valve 4T engine for the trials bike since the FSE, but I'm not up to speed on how well it caught on.
As far as Beta supplying engines to GG, I'll believe it when I see it. I think Beta is happy for now with their approach of selling 4T's engines all over the world, as long as they are wrapped in a Beta chassis.
Might as well wish for Yamaha to develop a 6 speed 4T motor, that seems just as (un)likely. I've made my points, I'm done posting about it, we'll all see what happens.
As far as Beta supplying engines to GG, I'll believe it when I see it. I think Beta is happy for now with their approach of selling 4T's engines all over the world, as long as they are wrapped in a Beta chassis.
Might as well wish for Yamaha to develop a 6 speed 4T motor, that seems just as (un)likely. I've made my points, I'm done posting about it, we'll all see what happens.
Fred1956
New member
What I know/was told about the Sherco 4t motor-at least the 300i version---- Sherco sources the castings, final machining & assembly is done in house. I know nothing of it's roots though
Bandit9
Platinum Level Site Supporter
Why dump the best 4 stroke motor in off road? Is it because it doesn't have a 6th gear? Just curious bc most people love the Yammie 5 valve 450 motor.
I have run my WR450 from tight ass woods enduros to wide open desert and 500 mile Dual Sport rides, all with same 13/50 gearing. Never missed the 6th gear. It would be nice to have it, but not at the expense of losing the best power band and reliability there is to have.
The motor is fine. The tranny is lacking (including a clutch that lacks modulation for technical riding).
I have a 2005 WR450 that I use mostly for cruel sport.
The stock gearing makes first gear a bit tall for technical single track. I bought a counter-shaft sprocket that is one-tooth smaller for technical single track. I understand that later WR450s went with the smaller front sprocket.
Even with the taller stock gearing, fifth gear makes the motor feel wrung out at 55mph (although top speed is well into the 80s). As it sits, it desperately needs a 5th gear, when compared to my KTM-riding cruel sport pals.
I have a 2005 WR450 that I use mostly for cruel sport.
The stock gearing makes first gear a bit tall for technical single track. I bought a counter-shaft sprocket that is one-tooth smaller for technical single track. I understand that later WR450s went with the smaller front sprocket.
Even with the taller stock gearing, fifth gear makes the motor feel wrung out at 55mph (although top speed is well into the 80s). As it sits, it desperately needs a 5th gear, when compared to my KTM-riding cruel sport pals.
Bandit9
Platinum Level Site Supporter
The 07-11 WR450 tranny has different internals with the tranny. It is more than just adding a 13t sprocket. That gap b/t 2nd and 3rd is gone too.
I rarely use 1st. Do all my slow tech stuff in 2nd. Power is smoother and more controllable that way. Never had issue with the clutch modulation on either my 06 or 09.
Thought it was a smooth solid clutch.
It can be buzzy at 55mph, but it wasn't designed to cruise at 55mph. When I ride DS, I'm in no hurry, so I keep it around 45mph.
I would take a 6th gear though, but it isn't a deal breaker to me. Maybe if I rode where you ride, and you rode where I ride, we would understand each other better!
I rarely use 1st. Do all my slow tech stuff in 2nd. Power is smoother and more controllable that way. Never had issue with the clutch modulation on either my 06 or 09.
Thought it was a smooth solid clutch. It can be buzzy at 55mph, but it wasn't designed to cruise at 55mph. When I ride DS, I'm in no hurry, so I keep it around 45mph.
I would take a 6th gear though, but it isn't a deal breaker to me. Maybe if I rode where you ride, and you rode where I ride, we would understand each other better!
