I don't understand all you mean but when I say "lean" o "rich" it's always referred to the carburation, never in size ( that is the opposite ).
2014 Gas Gas 300 - Jetting
- Thread starter n_green
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I don't understand all you mean but when I say "lean" o "rich" it's always referred to the carburation, never in size ( that is the opposite ).
Like I said I could well be wrong, but what I'm thinking is that with an NECG needle I'd be using a 32 or 35 pilot whereas with the NECJ I'm using a 40 pilot.
So in theory while both the J and the G will both be supplying the same fueling at idle, and at part throttle whilst both needles are on the straight section, as the slide begins rising the J will hit the taper sooner, meaning combined with the 40 pilot it is now supplying more fuel at the same throttle position as the G which is still on the straight section using a 35 pilot.
Then again by this stage in the game the main will well and truly be supplying fuel through the needle jet so who knows?
I need a drink.
So in theory while both the J and the G will both be supplying the same fueling at idle, and at part throttle whilst both needles are on the straight section, as the slide begins rising the J will hit the taper sooner, meaning combined with the 40 pilot it is now supplying more fuel at the same throttle position as the G which is still on the straight section using a 35 pilot.
Then again by this stage in the game the main will well and truly be supplying fuel through the needle jet so who knows?
I need a drink.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I finally get where you are going with it. That the pilot/needle combo will vary it. I always figured that the leaner diameters even with a shorter straight would richen up on the taper to be about the same as the equivalent richer needle.
I don't think the pilot circuit is linear though, and as the slide opens the signal diminishes and less fuel is supplied through that circuit. Just another variable to throw in your thoughts.
Do some demo's.
I did. 38 and H diameter. AS lean. Bike idles, and can get it to hesitate on cracking the throttle indicating lean pilot. But engine broke up burbling at part throttle.
40 W. Better, can still get some light burbles at part, and can still tune the AS effectively.
42 J. Effective idle and AS, but bike lacks balls and gets a bit tinny at small throttle.
All tested on a 250. For the 300 its the 42/J which felt best.
I don't think the pilot circuit is linear though, and as the slide opens the signal diminishes and less fuel is supplied through that circuit. Just another variable to throw in your thoughts.
Do some demo's.
I did. 38 and H diameter. AS lean. Bike idles, and can get it to hesitate on cracking the throttle indicating lean pilot. But engine broke up burbling at part throttle.
40 W. Better, can still get some light burbles at part, and can still tune the AS effectively.
42 J. Effective idle and AS, but bike lacks balls and gets a bit tinny at small throttle.
All tested on a 250. For the 300 its the 42/J which felt best.
That is a very good point and what I was trying to put into words. Really I could think around it in circles all day and come to the same conclusion: that the different diameters/straight sections are going to do bugger all really.
I've been lucky enough to be sent a #8 slide to try out so ill see how that goes when it arrives.
In reality it is not entirely true because the circuits are not separated at 100%.
So the diameter of the trunk is also affects idle, especially at high rpm.
This is because the influence of the idle jet is not linear, as Jakobi says , and not to the fact that the "J" is already in the first taper while the "G" no.
To be in the first taper does not mean being richer, if you've made the drawing you will definitely clear.
In this topic, you are answering the question I asked in the topic about the diameter of the straight part of the needle.
I have no technical knowledge of you, but I can help with practical tests I've done. I have all the needles of the line Suzuki NE, from NECJ up NEDF + Kawa needle N3WD.
In my tests, what worked best was a combination of a richer needle + smaller pilot jet.
My carb is a AS1, the best combination was one needle F + #52 pilot jet. Needle G and H needles tested with larger pilot jet and realizing testing of the famous video of Jeff Slavens, there was a little hesitation, the famous ?buouou?, subtle but noticeable way.
Do not not panic at the size of the pilot jet and the diameter of the needle, the fuel in Brazil is very different than in the rest of the world, beyond the AS1 like to require richer carburetion. With the OEM needle, Jet pilot wore # 45 ~ 48.
Sorry for my bad English.
I have no technical knowledge of you, but I can help with practical tests I've done. I have all the needles of the line Suzuki NE, from NECJ up NEDF + Kawa needle N3WD.
In my tests, what worked best was a combination of a richer needle + smaller pilot jet.
My carb is a AS1, the best combination was one needle F + #52 pilot jet. Needle G and H needles tested with larger pilot jet and realizing testing of the famous video of Jeff Slavens, there was a little hesitation, the famous ?buouou?, subtle but noticeable way.
Do not not panic at the size of the pilot jet and the diameter of the needle, the fuel in Brazil is very different than in the rest of the world, beyond the AS1 like to require richer carburetion. With the OEM needle, Jet pilot wore # 45 ~ 48.
Sorry for my bad English.
I love this forum, it's a worldwide rock scientist convention.
I am interested in all this stuff, but gee I wish I could just plug in jetting and have it work well AND provide good economy ala your bike...
When are you riding next, let me know, I want to come out and ride with you and compare
Jakobi
Super Moderator
He'll get my baseline jetting specs and then no doubt have to make a few changes to get into the ballpark.
I have recommended a head mod, but being a demo he'll likely not bother and showcase the stock engine vs modified. I would like to see what the squish comes in at, but that will depend.
Also suggested checking PV tension, even though the factory seems to be more onto the game. I'd like to see the changes under the rhs engine cover, but will also depend if required.
He's going to give the bike a decent period to break in and get the suspension working and then we'll be plushing up those 48mm Zokes. Probably leave the stock mid and float as he is after a rather loose setup, so that and a staged BV with light LS should cover it. Rebound will get the normal beef up. The shock no doubt will need a massage to soften it up too. I'll record the stacks and take it from there.
Initial impressions are that its build quality is greatly improved, even over my 2013R. Seat cover looks well sturdy and may last a little longer than previous models (I am hard on seats). The brake on the outside of the frame is much better than my curled one. The gear shifter tip appears to be revised and better quality too. Externally the head and engine look nice and the starter much tidier - time will tell how it works. There is room for a spacer and I'll be swinging him a 8mm to use.
I believe it has a Vforce 4 reed block so could have some influence on the changes too.
I have recommended a head mod, but being a demo he'll likely not bother and showcase the stock engine vs modified. I would like to see what the squish comes in at, but that will depend.
Also suggested checking PV tension, even though the factory seems to be more onto the game. I'd like to see the changes under the rhs engine cover, but will also depend if required.
He's going to give the bike a decent period to break in and get the suspension working and then we'll be plushing up those 48mm Zokes. Probably leave the stock mid and float as he is after a rather loose setup, so that and a staged BV with light LS should cover it. Rebound will get the normal beef up. The shock no doubt will need a massage to soften it up too. I'll record the stacks and take it from there.
Initial impressions are that its build quality is greatly improved, even over my 2013R. Seat cover looks well sturdy and may last a little longer than previous models (I am hard on seats). The brake on the outside of the frame is much better than my curled one. The gear shifter tip appears to be revised and better quality too. Externally the head and engine look nice and the starter much tidier - time will tell how it works. There is room for a spacer and I'll be swinging him a 8mm to use.
I believe it has a Vforce 4 reed block so could have some influence on the changes too.
Simmo737
Gold Level Site Supporter
I am interested in all this stuff, but gee I wish I could just plug in jetting and have it work well AND provide good economy ala your bike...
When are you riding next, let me know, I want to come out and ride with you and compare
Next Tuesday or Wednesday cessnock, very welcome.
Ps mine still has a tiny blubber but it really doesn't affect the delivery.
I also spoke to jay at Hornsby the other day so might get in on one of his Sunday session at letter a or Palmdale soon as well.
Tell me about the difference between NECx vs N3Wx
THANK'S
When I opened the topic below, temperatures were below the 10?C, and low relative humidity, in these circumstances, I noticed a small hole to fully accelerate the engine the same being, much more subtle than in idle video Jeff Slavens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVzqqpgviyI
I opened topic:
http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17921
On topic, I asked about some needle Triple Taper which had the richest part straight towards NEDF, but excluding the N1EF (OEM), for having a very short straight part. As I understand the answers, the N3WD had the richest part of the straight NEDF, and so that was what I was looking for, and maybe the solution I was looking for.
I received this needle in last Friday, but now, the temperatures have risen, they are around 20?C, and the NEDF needle, there was little hesitation disappeared. I'll see if I can get some free time this Saturday to install the N3WD and see how it behaves.
