2018 XC - diagnosing electrical issue

[GG221]

I have a 240 CCA antigravity battery, new cables, reflashed CDI, ground points are all sanded to bare metal.
This video is my bike trying to start when cold...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmI8-sBmjXE

While I am riding the bike I kill it in neutral and immediately try to estart and it will not start. Now with it warm it will just spin continuously but not turn over the motor.

After kick starting the bike I measure the battery while the bike is running and it?s only 13.05 volts. The same voltage as when the bike isn?t running. Could this be related to the flywheel update that I?ve read about?

I have checked all electric connections they are all tight and dielectric greased.

 

[martg]

e-starting

you need a new starter. I had the same problem and tried a new starter, now it has been all good.

 

[GG221]

you need a new starter. I had the same problem and tried a new starter, now it has been all good.

Is there a way I can verify it is the starter? If I bench test it, I know it?s going to spin since it spins when the bike is warm. So bench testing it won?t tell me anything. If I buy a new starter won?t I be replacing it with the exact same starter? Was there a batch of bad starters getting sent out on these bikes? I?m not doubting that it fixed your situation, I?m just tired of chasing this problem and spending hundreds of dollars on not fixing it. A new starter is another 200$ and I want to be sure that it will actually fix it instead of guessing some more if I?m going to spend that kind of money.
I haven?t read about any more scenarios where the starter itself was bad, but flywheels and bearings I have heard a few things about.

What exactly will GasGas cover under recall with this bike? I am out of the warranty deadline. Will they fix it since it?s a known issue?

 

[fred99999au]

pull the starter motor out and see how hard it is to turn the gear inside the ignition cover with your finger.

 

[RudolfHucker]

There is another thread on here about badly machined flywheel covers that don't line up the starter drive gear with the ring gear on the flywheel. This was specifically on the 18 models and were replaced by the manufacturer.

Have a check around on recent posts and, if I remember correctly, there is a method described to assess the issue on your cover. There is also a bearing in there that may need lube or replacing.

As far as the battery voltage is concerned, if the bike has been laid up for any length of time, the battery has either lost some charge or needs some exercise to bring it back up to full capacity.

 

[GG221]

There is another thread on here about badly machined flywheel covers that don't line up the starter drive gear with the ring gear on the flywheel. This was specifically on the 18 models and were replaced by the manufacturer.

Have a check around on recent posts and, if I remember correctly, there is a method described to assess the issue on your cover. There is also a bearing in there that may need lube or replacing.

As far as the battery voltage is concerned, if the bike has been laid up for any length of time, the battery has either lost some charge or needs some exercise to bring it back up to full capacity.

I did read something about a bendix cover. Is this the cover you are referring to?
Also that battery in the video is brand new. That video is the first time ever trying to start with that battery

 

[RudolfHucker]

Yes, that's the one.

 

[dzhitshard]

"Now with it warm it will just spin continuously but not turn over the motor."

can you flesh out what this statement means? It's vague. Hopefully articulating it a little more accurately will help someone get you sorted out.

For example:
Does it mean that you are experiencing what is going on in your video if you kill the bike after it has been warmed up? (slow, high resistance cranking)

Does it mean the starter spins continuously in free wheel and isn't engaging the flywheel or cranking the motor at all?

Does it mean that the motor continually cranks over via the starter but makes no attempt to fire?


What was you starting voltage on that battery? Was the video your peak voltage or did you start recording after a failed attempt or 2 to start it?
Your battery voltage isn't recovering like I'd expect a fresh, fully charged AG to.

What squish did RKtech cut that head to? Probably only matters if you asked him for something wild vs what he normally offers.

One last question, is this a new or possibly worsened condition after you have had the flywheel cover off?

 

[GG221]

"Now with it warm it will just spin continuously but not turn over the motor."

can you flesh out what this statement means? It's vague. Hopefully articulating it a little more accurately will help someone get you sorted out.

For example:
Does it mean that you are experiencing what is going on in your video if you kill the bike after it has been warmed up? (slow, high resistance cranking)

Does it mean the starter spins continuously in free wheel and isn't engaging the flywheel or cranking the motor at all?

Does it mean that the motor continually cranks over via the starter but makes no attempt to fire?


What was you starting voltage on that battery? Was the video your peak voltage or did you start recording after a failed attempt or 2 to start it?
Your battery voltage isn't recovering like I'd expect a fresh, fully charged AG to.

What squish did RKtech cut that head to? Probably only matters if you asked him for something wild vs what he normally offers.

One last question, is this a new or possibly worsened condition after you have had the flywheel cover off?

So what is happening when it is warm is the starter spins continuously in free wheel and isnt engaging the motor at all. I didn?t ask for a specific squish from RK, I just told him about my bike, we talked about jetting, and he sent me the head. I have not taken off any covers yet. I have the gaskets in case it comes to that. I called the dealer I bought the bike from and he said he never heard of any of these issues but he is going to contact GasGas and get back to me ASAP so I?m hoping he gets me sorted out.
The starting voltage on that battery was 13.08. The video is the very first start attempt on that battery. Last summer I had a 210 amp battery and I got one cold start out of it. After that I think I maybe got one for two warm restarts out of it. This was when the battery was brand new. After the first few ride on that battery it wasn?t able to even restart, just like I?m experiencing now. After calling dealers I was convinced I needed a stronger battery which I figured might fix it since GG did reccomed this 240 amp battery in the tech bulletin

 

[martg]

e-starting

My dealer let me take a starter off the late model 18 that was on his showroom floor to try. the late model 18 starter had a different part number on it.
after bolting the new starter on, the bike started right up and has been working flawlessly.

 

[Undertow]

I have to go here with martg.

Had all sorts of problems with starter, except the free wheeling.

Changed batteries, wirings etc. Nothing helped.

New starter from demo bike - BANG! Now the bike cranks and starts like a hurricane

The problem seems to be that there really are multiple issues with starting, so also there is no one fix. But trying a digferent starter is also a valid option.

I hope you get it solved, a working starter is nice thing to have in a bad spot...

 

[roostafish]

I usually get flamed pretty hard for this, but damn if it doesn’t cure every single electric start issue. I’ll Pre flame answer so if you feel the need to interject your massive electrical knowledge please keep it to yourself. P=IE yup. Got it. Inductive reactance, got it. All That matters for the life of your motor windings is heat. That power dissipated times time will heat the windings up and smoke your windings. BUT only if you hold your thumb down too long. Your bike will start instantly with a 24v starting system.
Here’s my YouTube video of it in action.
https://youtu.be/A9SWuVKygRg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Neil E.]

Nothing wrong with this unless the engine has issues and you need more than just a quick stab on the button. We used to do the same thing in cold weather for cars with 6V batteries; jump them with 12V. No one else here is probably old enough to remember those.

Do you power only the starter motor with 24V or does 24V go to all devices on the bike?

 

[GG221]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Turned out to be the bendix cover. I posted the details in the starter fix thread.