300 or 200?

T

TinTin

New member
My son races a 2006 200 (mint bike with low miles), I have a 2011 300 (had a berg 390). Had my 300 for 3 months.

I only race, no green laning and not normally hare and hounds, I tend to do classic time cards in the south east (UK) so tight wooded stuff.. Clubman A rider late 30's and like to be on top of a bike when racing not running scared!!! (raced a husky wr144 for 3 years and loved the speed it changed direction)

Now is weekend I had the chance to ride both my sons and my bike back to back in a local hare and hound event that I was marshaling and helping out at. This has caused me a big issue. I was significantly quicker on the 200, so much more in control and not getting tired. So as I am writing this I am thinking 2 things..
1) can I change bits on my 300 to get it to a 200, I don't think so as different stroke but I am putting it out there
2) never ridden a 250, which I know I can change my 300 into, questions is will I be wasting my time with a 250, should I just go out and buy a 200 after selling my 300????

What's difficult is that my 300 is a lovely bike, with very low hours and all the gubbins you could want, I really don't want to sell BUT the smaller cc just works for me.

Answers on a postcard please?
 
You could probably get a 200 crank, top end, head, and pipe and do the conversion. It may cost you a pretty penny and take some down time depending on your mechanical abilities. I'm not sure if the 200 uses the same CDI or not. Would have to check the fiche.

I was in the same situation. Own a 2010 300R and was very happy with it, but also believe I would be able to ride a 200 harder, faster, longer and was ready to get a 2012 200R. Big delays on the shipping (unknown ETA for Aus) has caused me to pull the plug and I have since ordered an S3 250 top end and will be doing a conversion. There's a thread running in 2T engine area.

Re your bling bits it seems you have a few options. Buy a 200 and transfer any goodies you have over, downsize your current to a 250, or start looking into how much cost and effort it'd take to change engine internals.
 
You can't put a 200 crank in 300 cases, mains are different. Plus there are more subtle differences than meet the eye. Trans, primary, etc. If the chassis is set up for you and a lot is invested you can swap the motor, pipe, CDI.
 
hey TinTin, before you sell your 300, try and get a ride on a 250. I have both and the 250 is a much lighter feeling bike, their quite different, and i prefer the 250 over my 300, i can ride the 250 way harder.
300 to 250 is a relativly cheap conversion especially with the s3 cylinders.
 
Change it to a 250 (easy to do) and "soft tune" it. What I mean is jet it to have ample but very usable low end power, soft mid hit and ample over rev. I bet you could ride my 250 as fast or faster than you could the 200. A 200 is not nearly as forgiving if you get caught in the wrong gear or miss a shift. My 2011 ec250 is "soft tuned" with an auto clutch and it is the easiest to ride 2smoke I ever threw a leg over (fast or slow). My bike has the 36mm carb and a NEDW needle. It will lug around like a trials bike or run like a mx bike if you keep the revs up.
 
TinTin ..... Brother!!!

back in 05 I test rode an 06 300 and an 05 200 ... I really liked how fun the 200 was to ride. I went with the 300 for the chug factor, lazy man 4 stroke power thing. In 08 I rode a friends ktm 200. Whooot what a blast, easy to toss around and it did not feel like it would kill me if I got tired ... while looking for a ktm 200 I found a new 08 husky cr 125 left over for $3k. shoot a new bike for $3K it ain't a 200 but for that price who cares. 3 months later I blew it up and it became a 144. I rode that bike off an on with my 300, mostly the 144 after awhile, for about 2 years. Like yourself I loved how you can throw it around and its more fun to ride an underpowered bike at its limit than it is to ride an over powered bike no where near its limit. Anyway last summer I decided it was time for a 200 (ktm) but a fellow gasser rider was kind of giving his pretty much new 11 250 sixdays away. I wasn't looking for a 250 but at that price i figured what the hell guess I'll try a 250. the very short answer is I'm thinking I should have gone with a 200 or maybe even a 250f. the long answer is I haven't given up on the 250 yet. Its a very nice bike. I got the jetting more or less figured out as winter closed in. I was thinking it might be a bit under sprung for me so I went up on the springs front and back this winter. I will play around with the rear sprocket a bit too. Haven't been out with it yet this year. I may get it licked and really like the bike.

The big difference between the 250 and a smaller bore bike is not having to think about the throttle. My 06 was a us spec 300 with a lighter weight flywheel. I had to be thinking about the throttle all the time. especially when tired and in sloppy conditions. The 144 was like throttle? what throttle? just whack it and go. With the 250 I'm back having to think about the throttle again. The 144 never really felt like it would reach up and bite me If I left my guard down. The 300 was a lion disguised as a kitten and you never really knew when mr lion was going to make a showing. The 250, while not as bad as the 300 still has enough motor to bite. That and not being able to toss it around like my 144 or my buds ktm 200 are the two things that bother me about it. But like I said, I was starting to warm up to it as winter closed in. I do think that a 250 will make a great all arounder. The 144 was sweet in the tight stuff but kind of zingy in the more open long distance turkey run type stuff. the 300 was okay in the tight stuff but really sweet in the more open stuff.

When I look back at things I think I should have got a 2001 husky wr 125 when I got back into riding back in 2001 instead of the drz 400 that I got. and I think I should have bought that 05 200 instead of the 06 300 back in 06. and I should of got an 08 ktm 200 the day after I rode my buds 08 200 ... I'm a 49 year old c rider that does alittle of everything. Some enduros, some hare scrambles, some turkey runs and just plain old trail riding. terrain in my area is vey rocky and pretty technical.

Your an A rider so the bike getting away from you might not be the same issue it is with me. If money is an issue the cheap way out is the 250 conversion. It may take the edge off the 300. that said a 250 is not a 200 and vice versa. There is somethng to be said about being on a small bore on the pipe in the woods. If money isn't an issue and all you do is race ... get a 200. Its suppose to be fun right?? Another option is to keep the 300 and find a cheap older 200. I've seen several in my neck of the woods for around $1500 to $1700.
 
GMP said:
You can't put a 200 crank in 300 cases, mains are different. Plus there are more subtle differences than meet the eye. Trans, primary, etc. If the chassis is set up for you and a lot is invested you can swap the motor, pipe, CDI.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying ths Glenn. I'd had a quick look at the Fiche but must have missed a few things. The bottom end will be my next steep learning curve.
 
Thanks for all the replies, I know that I want to go to a smaller bore but split between 200 & 250. When I race they tend to be 4-5 hours and I just can't seem to keep on top of the 300 for that long.

As I don't have access to a 250 I am going to sway towards the 200 as I know bow they ride. It'll be a shame to get rid of the 300 though! In an ideal world someone outhere will have a 2011 200 and want a 300 & we can do a deal.

Not seen many 2011 200's though mostly 250/300

Will keep you posted.
 
If you have the funds its still possible you could get the 200. Either swap the engines over, or swap the bling bits and suspension, and then sell of the old one. Will save you going through all the new bike setup again.
 
i raced a 200 for a few years and switched to a 300. the drawback with the 200 is you gotta be in the right gear on big hill climbs, especially muddy/slick ones. you have to setup more when you enter the uphill. the 300 grunts up most anything. the 200 will wear you out just working it hard if there are a lot of elevation changes - you really need more momentum entering hills - everything here is rocks rocks and more rocks - relentless really, so i need the 300 to overcome the power zapping effect they have.. . the 300 in tight stuff i noticed i just use 1/4 throttle 99% of the time in 2nd and 3rd gear..... less twisting and shifting. the 200 i was working it all the time, all over the place shifting it. the 300 just needs to find traction, so you're always a gear up. and the big open stuff there's no contest, the 300 walks away from everything else.

i like them both, but as long as you really concentrate on throttle control, the 300 is more versatile. you can jet the 300 really soft, and put the big flywheel on. i like mine snappy - maybe too snappy - first gear is useless...


i've never ridden the 250, so i don't really have an idea how it would be - i'm under the impression they are even more snappy than the 300..

that being said, if i just rode mostly flat terrain, with no rocks, i'd be all over the smallest bike i could find. i ride only small bore (200cc and smaller) in vintage events - they never put big hills in them, and i can probably ride the smaller bikes faster...and easier, but i find i'm at wot a lot more..
 
This has been discussed a million times. Another way to describe it is this: The 300 will pull harder and faster off idle into the midrange, the 250 will pull hard and rev faster from mid to top with a little more hit, all other things being equal. You usually don't get sloppy with the throttle half way open, its off idle control that may get you. The 250 is easy to ride off the bottom with plenty of torque for the seasoned rider to concour any obstacle. You can also ride it on the pipe more often and it vibrates less. The G2 throttle is great accessory for either bike used in technical riding.
 
My suggestion would be to try out some set up changes before selling the 300. I was having the same problem with my 300 and thinking about changing it for a 200 (recent model ec 200 are very few and far between in the UK - GG do not regard them as a 'priority', apparently). Slow throttle cam (you can make your own with an old domino tube to try it out), an extra reed block spacer (costs about a tenner) and the right jetting and ignition timing made the bike work well, and I'm sportsman class, so probably want an even milder state of tune than a clubman rider. Almost trials like low end, with smooth transition into normal mid and top end. Plenty of margin for error when tired and throttle control isn't at it's best. Easier than trying to keep a smaller bore engine spinning when it's wet, muddy or technical
 
Caravan Monster said:
My suggestion would be to try out some set up changes before selling the 300. I was having the same problem with my 300 and thinking about changing it for a 200 (recent model ec 200 are very few and far between in the UK - GG do not regard them as a 'priority', apparently). Slow throttle cam (you can make your own with an old domino tube to try it out), an extra reed block spacer (costs about a tenner) and the right jetting and ignition timing made the bike work well, and I'm sportsman class, so probably want an even milder state of tune than a clubman rider. Almost trials like low end, with smooth transition into normal mid and top end. Plenty of margin for error when tired and throttle control isn't at it's best. Easier than trying to keep a smaller bore engine spinning when it's wet, muddy or technical
Click to expand...

What does the extra reed block spacer do? I can see how maybe a cam on the throttle, flywheel weight or different carb setti gs could work though.
 
TinTin said:
What does the extra reed block spacer do? I can see how maybe a cam on the throttle, flywheel weight or different carb setti gs could work though.
Click to expand...

Reed block spacer effectively adds a little more volume to the crank case. The net result is it makes it less snappy/responsive on the bottom end.
 
I'd warm it up with a hair dryer and tap it on the edges. I remember the block on my 250 being stubborn to leave the cases. Sticky gasket.
 
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