capehorn23
New member
Is any one using amsoil saber at 80 to 1 besides Slaven Racing.
80 to 1 oil
- Thread starter capehorn23
- Start date
gassergrant
New member
I personally wouldn't 50:1 all the way
motopsycho87
New member
If you trust your jetting is absolutely spot on, 50:1. If you have even the slightest bit of doubt, or ride the hell out of your bike 32:1. Less oil is not cool, my bike is jetted spot on and just done a fresh rebuild. I am running 25:1 mineral oil for run in and get barely any smoke.
cbutler
Member
I can't understand the logic. GG says 50:1 with fully synthetic oil. 40:1 with semi synthetic. Why in the world would one deviate from that, in the wrong direction? There have been numerous studies over the decades that show more oil, properly jetted, makes more power.
Now, I do not race but I do ride on the street as well as the trails. I might drive 22 miles to my buddies house at pretty much WFO and I reckon that is not exactly easy on it.
My GG has 10,075 miles or so.....I replaced the ORings once because I thought it might be leaking. Turns out it was not, I do not think.
She starts in 1-3 kicks every time, has never fouled a plug even when being bogged for miles in stupid tight woods. She does smoke, duh, it's a 2-stroke and I'd be very worried if she didn't but I have no "spooge" to speak of....end of pipe is dry.
The engine feels as tight as new, I have replaced nothing. My shock needs rebuilding.
What do I attribute the long life to? The same thing that allowed every 2-stoke I have ever owned to rack up the same sort of numbers.........
Synthetic oil at between 20:1 and 28:1.......currently I use Dominator but have run gallons of Mercury PWC Syn., as well as RedLine. All at 28:1 for the GG
Too much oil will only, maybe, foul a plug (I never do)......too little and the money saved for tires will be spent on a rebuild
I'd be curious to know if anyone using those lean ratios has had an engine go 10k miles (not KM!).
I assure you my engine is not tired! She pretty much embarrasses my buddy's Husky 390 and 500 in a drag race (I only weigh 135-140) and in the woods it's no contest, but some of that may be me I will state that me and James May do have one thing in common...we are both "Captain Slow". I could not hang with most of you on my best day......but I might go by you when your engine seizes
Just my 69 cents worth!
Ed
ps**** I'd like to personally thank Jakobi for all his time and effort he puts forth to help folks on this forum. You're a good guy, Jakobi, always helpful. I'm amazed at your knowledge.
Now, I do not race but I do ride on the street as well as the trails. I might drive 22 miles to my buddies house at pretty much WFO and I reckon that is not exactly easy on it.
My GG has 10,075 miles or so.....I replaced the ORings once because I thought it might be leaking. Turns out it was not, I do not think.
She starts in 1-3 kicks every time, has never fouled a plug even when being bogged for miles in stupid tight woods. She does smoke, duh, it's a 2-stroke and I'd be very worried if she didn't but I have no "spooge" to speak of....end of pipe is dry.
The engine feels as tight as new, I have replaced nothing. My shock needs rebuilding.
What do I attribute the long life to? The same thing that allowed every 2-stoke I have ever owned to rack up the same sort of numbers.........
Synthetic oil at between 20:1 and 28:1.......currently I use Dominator but have run gallons of Mercury PWC Syn., as well as RedLine. All at 28:1 for the GG
Too much oil will only, maybe, foul a plug (I never do)......too little and the money saved for tires will be spent on a rebuild
I'd be curious to know if anyone using those lean ratios has had an engine go 10k miles (not KM!).
I assure you my engine is not tired! She pretty much embarrasses my buddy's Husky 390 and 500 in a drag race (I only weigh 135-140) and in the woods it's no contest, but some of that may be me
I will state that me and James May do have one thing in common...we are both "Captain Slow". I could not hang with most of you on my best day......but I might go by you when your engine seizes Just my 69 cents worth!
Ed
ps**** I'd like to personally thank Jakobi for all his time and effort he puts forth to help folks on this forum. You're a good guy, Jakobi, always helpful. I'm amazed at your knowledge.
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gasser
New member
I have been running Amsoil Saber at 75/1 for years now without any problems. That saves me about $100 a year. I did put roughly 10,000 miles on my last gasser and it held up very well. I rebuild my top end every 150 -200 hours but that's for peace of mind not because it needs it. I would rebuild it just as often if I ran my oil mix at 28/1.
Hey Gasser, if you are doing the top end that often then you certainly have not put 10K miles on it in the context of the question!
I should have been clear, is there a single person out there who has used those lean ratios and put >10K miles on their engine without touching it?
I am quite certain the answer to this will be "no"......excuses like "preventative maintenance" do not count!
When I did the ORings there was still crosshatch and no slop at all. I guess I could have wasted money a long time ago with a top end rebuild, but again I do not race. If I did any racing except motocross I'd not touch it until it needed it. I reckon it had about 6K on it when I did the ORings.
At 10k miles, there are no indications whatsoever that I should mess with it.
Gasser, do understand, I certainly respect your opinion, I've seen your posts too, like Jakobi, I know you are knowledgeable.......
How many "approximate miles" do you suppose 150 hours is? Not a trick question! I just have never kept track of time since I have an odometer.
Ed
I should have been clear, is there a single person out there who has used those lean ratios and put >10K miles on their engine without touching it?
I am quite certain the answer to this will be "no"......excuses like "preventative maintenance" do not count!
When I did the ORings there was still crosshatch and no slop at all. I guess I could have wasted money a long time ago with a top end rebuild, but again I do not race. If I did any racing except motocross I'd not touch it until it needed it. I reckon it had about 6K on it when I did the ORings.
At 10k miles, there are no indications whatsoever that I should mess with it.
Gasser, do understand, I certainly respect your opinion, I've seen your posts too
, like Jakobi, I know you are knowledgeable.......How many "approximate miles" do you suppose 150 hours is? Not a trick question! I just have never kept track of time since I have an odometer.
Ed
SS109
Active member
I agree with houndog. I would rather spend more on oil than do top ends more frequently. I ride and race my bikes hard here in the AZ desert. High heat and running from wide open down to a crawl hopping rocks. 32:1 has proven to keep the top ends in great shape on my Kawasakis and now my GG. I'm also a big believer in the lubricating properties of castor, but I like the cleaner burning of modern synthetics, so I compromise with a semi-synthetic (Castor 927).
bowhunter007
New member
I find these threads fascinating. After reading multiple threads & posts on premix ratios, I'm quite curious about running leaner fuel/oil ratios(with corrected jetting, of course). I still am running 32:1 Redline Racing oil. While I'm light years ahead on skill, since my relearn, starting in late 2011. I can use up a top end in just a few months(3-5) mixing trails and racing. As expensive as these can be, they are still cheaper than any purpose built trail trucks I've built. Back on point, I know too many guys running 60 to 80:1 mix ratios for there not to be some validation for their use. I just haven't the intestinal fortitude to try it on my own machines...yet.
Hey guys, I posted this before I think......
I believe this fellow to be 100% correct......even though I run 28:1 rather than 20:1.....then again , GG says "50:1 with full synthetic" so I'm pretty sure I am good since I always run synthetic of some type.....
He says a couple things that stick in my mind..... "If You Don't.... It's OK.... I Don't Care.... It's Not My Engine!!!!"
And this one.... the best one..... "I know of no scientifically run tests that show less oil is better for your engine. On the contrary, I know of several that show more oil, jetted right, in a good engine, gives more horsepower."
The thing about oil weight is interesting....."Well, think of it this way. If oil "A" is twice as thick as oil "B" and you mix both at 40 to 1, oil "A" will really be 20 to 1, right ? Now think about the reverse. If "A" is half as thick as oil "B" and you mix both at 40 to 1. "A" would now be 80 to 1. A bit lean right ? I don't think the real dilution ratios, between different oils, are that big. I do think there is enough of a difference between 2-stroke oils to cause a problem. Especially when you consider the additive package."
Trying to help, not start a flame war! Already involved in one of those on another (audio) board, seems some guys don't like it if you try and help them
I got called a "pathetic clown troll".....how funny is that? That is not me at all! I'm the Honey Badger/Porcupine Hybrid......I don't care and if you poke me you might get stuck....... saying that really pissed the little boys off!
I've never experienced that level of nastiness here.....not even close. It's nice dealing with adults
http://www.dansmc.com/2stroke_oil.htm
Ed
I believe this fellow to be 100% correct......even though I run 28:1 rather than 20:1.....then again , GG says "50:1 with full synthetic" so I'm pretty sure I am good since I always run synthetic of some type.....
He says a couple things that stick in my mind..... "If You Don't.... It's OK.... I Don't Care.... It's Not My Engine!!!!"
And this one.... the best one..... "I know of no scientifically run tests that show less oil is better for your engine. On the contrary, I know of several that show more oil, jetted right, in a good engine, gives more horsepower."
The thing about oil weight is interesting....."Well, think of it this way. If oil "A" is twice as thick as oil "B" and you mix both at 40 to 1, oil "A" will really be 20 to 1, right ? Now think about the reverse. If "A" is half as thick as oil "B" and you mix both at 40 to 1. "A" would now be 80 to 1. A bit lean right ? I don't think the real dilution ratios, between different oils, are that big. I do think there is enough of a difference between 2-stroke oils to cause a problem. Especially when you consider the additive package."
Trying to help, not start a flame war! Already involved in one of those on another (audio) board, seems some guys don't like it if you try and help them
I got called a "pathetic clown troll".....how funny is that? That is not me at all! I'm the Honey Badger/Porcupine Hybrid......I don't care and if you poke me you might get stuck....... saying that really pissed the little boys off!
I've never experienced that level of nastiness here.....not even close. It's nice dealing with adults
http://www.dansmc.com/2stroke_oil.htm
Ed
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Stop being a clown troll Ed.. I run my engines on straight unleaded and replace pistons after every ride. Works for me 
When we hook into these discussions there are so many variables at play that you can't make any direct claims regarding oil ratio. Hound dogman is correct though, that too much oil has the possibility to make a bike run a bit messy, but it sure won't hurt it. On the contrary we all know someone who knows someone who forgot to mix the oil once.
I wouldn't even think about running that many miles on a top end. I'd have it pulled down well before, and if I'm investing the time to pull it I'll spend a few dollars and freshen it up. I've run some lean jetting and turned the throttle hard resulting in pistons with almost the entire underside of the dome carboned up, and with Amsoil at 45:1 haven't nipped up. I've yet to see any signs of starvation. There's always a healthy coating over all the components and imo thats whats important. More won't hurt.. Just like replacing pistons at set intervals doesn't hurt, and inspecting your engine regularly to gauge its wear rates don't hurt either.
If I was worried about the life of my engine I wouldn't ride it. I wouldn't have anywhere to ride. Its always stupid dusty or half flooded. I've pulled the spark plug and shot a spurter higher than big willy on more than one occassion. I'm sure washing the engine in creek water isn't great for it either. Another reason why I wouldn't leave an engine run until it dies unexpectedly.
And thats just my opinion.. yours WILL vary (said to everyone).
When we hook into these discussions there are so many variables at play that you can't make any direct claims regarding oil ratio. Hound dogman is correct though, that too much oil has the possibility to make a bike run a bit messy, but it sure won't hurt it. On the contrary we all know someone who knows someone who forgot to mix the oil once.
I wouldn't even think about running that many miles on a top end. I'd have it pulled down well before, and if I'm investing the time to pull it I'll spend a few dollars and freshen it up. I've run some lean jetting and turned the throttle hard resulting in pistons with almost the entire underside of the dome carboned up, and with Amsoil at 45:1 haven't nipped up. I've yet to see any signs of starvation. There's always a healthy coating over all the components and imo thats whats important. More won't hurt.. Just like replacing pistons at set intervals doesn't hurt, and inspecting your engine regularly to gauge its wear rates don't hurt either.
If I was worried about the life of my engine I wouldn't ride it. I wouldn't have anywhere to ride. Its always stupid dusty or half flooded. I've pulled the spark plug and shot a spurter higher than big willy on more than one occassion. I'm sure washing the engine in creek water isn't great for it either. Another reason why I wouldn't leave an engine run until it dies unexpectedly.
And thats just my opinion.. yours WILL vary (said to everyone).
Jakobi, LOL.............
I love funny stuff!
At 45:1 you are richer than GG recommends....which is a good thing IMHO!
The number of miles on my 300 really is crazy, eh? She shows no signs of any wear at all, except the shock needs rebuilding. Hell, my "seal mate" fixed my leaking fork!!! I still have the seals that I bought to fix it!
Again, I do not race, I just ride trails and dirt roads....I swear, I will tear her down as soon as I see any sign that she wants it!
I am a little surprised that my reed valves has gone this long........never had a bike with a PV before this one so I had/have no feelings on how long that system may go.....I figured I'd have problems with it long before now, actually.
I can't see how there is a more volatile topic than oil ratios but yet no one gets their panties in a bunch over it. We discuss it like adults....offer our opinion and it's all good.
The "little boys" in the audio world could learn a thing or two from the MEN here!
You and the other guys on this board are fantastic, thanks for allowing the "pathetic clown troll" to hang.........
Ed
I love funny stuff!
At 45:1 you are richer than GG recommends....which is a good thing IMHO!
The number of miles on my 300 really is crazy, eh? She shows no signs of any wear at all, except the shock needs rebuilding. Hell, my "seal mate" fixed my leaking fork!!! I still have the seals that I bought to fix it!
Again, I do not race, I just ride trails and dirt roads....I swear, I will tear her down as soon as I see any sign that she wants it!
I am a little surprised that my reed valves has gone this long........never had a bike with a PV before this one so I had/have no feelings on how long that system may go.....I figured I'd have problems with it long before now, actually.
I can't see how there is a more volatile topic than oil ratios but yet no one gets their panties in a bunch over it. We discuss it like adults....offer our opinion and it's all good.
The "little boys" in the audio world could learn a thing or two from the MEN here!
You and the other guys on this board are fantastic, thanks for allowing the "pathetic clown troll" to hang.........
Ed
SS109
Active member
Maybe...SS109....I LOVE it! I assume you refer to all the 5.56 I used to have before I gave away all my guns and ammo
Ed
I lost all mine in a boating accident! 
motopsycho87
New member
I use exol optima racing 2t fully synth at 30ml per litre.
http://www.exol-lubricants.com/data_docs/TDS M124 Optima Racing Two Stroke - Iss 5.pdf
http://www.exol-lubricants.com/data_docs/TDS M124 Optima Racing Two Stroke - Iss 5.pdf
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Using that logic, I'd trust the oil manufactures recommendations for their particular oil over the bikes suggested ratio. The oil manufacturer has to find the right mix between 'selling oil and offering value' all while not harming their brandname through damaged engines run too lean. Most will suggest different oils and ratios depending on use. I'd say they've got the bases covered.
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