Ah to have passion about something again...
- Thread starter forgiven
- Start date
I don't know if it is slamming the Orange bikes or not. I mean, we have to realize that KTM is probably the "benchmark" that the off road bikes are used for comparison. I have a lot of respect for the Euro bike manufacturers to do what they are doing in these times. You have to admit that KTM has gone from a "where do you get those?" company to one that it now has become.
I personally believe that GG is on that same road. The groundwork that Clay is laying over here setting up the dealers and the resources the company is using to grow can only mean great times ahead for us.
blitz11
Silver Level Site Supporter
Good point. KTM Motorcycles were really the brainchild of John Penton, who saw the market for a lightweight, purpose-built, reliable off-highway motorcycle. (Too bad "Sachs" and "reliable" are orthogonal WRT transmissions, but that's another story). After significant success, "Penton" became "KTM."
If it weren't for John Penton, we wouldn't have anything to argue over.
If it weren't for John Penton, we wouldn't have anything to argue over.
I agree with most on this site we don't attack the KTM owners we simply feel the GasGas is a better bike. If not.... why would we be on GG bikes. KTM is a brand I thought I wanted until my son bought a couple; after a few rides my KTM wants were gone. No bashing just my personal taste. Hey I pull for Dungey 
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From my observations, KTM did a great job at taking over most of the offroad market during a period when others gave up, screwed up, or just didn't have a clue.
Basically by the mid 80's we lost several manufacturers that had been prominent in the market up to that time; CanAm, Bultaco, Sachs/Hercules just to name a few.
The Japanese all but gave up; What ever happened to the Suzuki PE's? RMX's? Yamaha IT's? WR 2ts? Kawasaki would still own a big chunk of the market with the KDX if they had modernized it, but they also chickened out and gave up. Suzuki and Kawi made a couple of laughable recent efforts with their KLX450 and (the ridiculous) RM450-X, but they were doomed from the start. Honda? let's not go there.....
Husqvarna almost disappeared due to a few screwed up ownership changes, made a heck of a comeback since 05-06, but I'm concerned they may be trying to shoot themselves in the foot again.
Who's been there all this time? KTM. It took a while, but by the late 90's their bikes were pretty good and they just kept at it. They also partnered with Red Bull & hired some farm boy named David Knight & several others such as Juha to really bring notice to their brand.
We can make fun of them etc., but they did everything right (mostly) while everyone else screwed up. They have become the standard.
Meanwhile GG has been quietly plugging away in Girona, steadily improving their bikes year after year and can now, in 2012 finally say(with absolute certainty) they are as good or better than KTM. Plus, they look so dam good!!!
Basically by the mid 80's we lost several manufacturers that had been prominent in the market up to that time; CanAm, Bultaco, Sachs/Hercules just to name a few.
The Japanese all but gave up; What ever happened to the Suzuki PE's? RMX's? Yamaha IT's? WR 2ts? Kawasaki would still own a big chunk of the market with the KDX if they had modernized it, but they also chickened out and gave up. Suzuki and Kawi made a couple of laughable recent efforts with their KLX450 and (the ridiculous) RM450-X, but they were doomed from the start. Honda? let's not go there.....
Husqvarna almost disappeared due to a few screwed up ownership changes, made a heck of a comeback since 05-06, but I'm concerned they may be trying to shoot themselves in the foot again.
Who's been there all this time? KTM. It took a while, but by the late 90's their bikes were pretty good and they just kept at it. They also partnered with Red Bull & hired some farm boy named David Knight & several others such as Juha to really bring notice to their brand.
We can make fun of them etc., but they did everything right (mostly) while everyone else screwed up. They have become the standard.
Meanwhile GG has been quietly plugging away in Girona, steadily improving their bikes year after year and can now, in 2012 finally say(with absolute certainty) they are as good or better than KTM. Plus, they look so dam good!!!
gasser
New member
I see it differently I suppose. If you just compare the motorcycles and how they perform I would argue that gassers were better than KTMs at least back to 2001 and probably 1998. I have a friend who has a very low time 2002 250 ktm that I have ridden back to back with a 2001 gasser I used to have and the gasser was hands down better. I do know that both bikes have gotten better since then and maybe ktms have improved enough to rival GasGas. In all probability they're most likely close enough that individual rider preference is the deciding factor. As for me, my 07 gasser was easier and more fun to ride than my 01 gasser and my 11 gasser is even more fun and easier to ride fast than the 07 bike was.
Fred1956
New member
KTM used to be where GG is today, I remember those days well. I went against the Japanese grain and bought a 1984 KTM 495, paid an extra $800 or so bucks over what an open class Jap bike was. It had it's issues (like the kickstarter shaft that would twist off) & it was a horsepower beast, but it came with the good stuff on it-Fox Twin clicker, good sprockets, good chain etc. It didn't turn the best BUT MX was a drag race between corners and you could win that drag race almost every time! Then they started getting accepted and became one of the masses. I tend to go against the grain and I love what GG has! I hope they succeed but not sure I want to winn all the KTM guys over........Some of them can stay on the kool ade
Ditto what Fred1956 was saying. In 1985, I bought a new KTM 125. Almost no one knew what kind of bike it was. It handled good and It was superfast for a 125. I holeshot almost every race that I rode. Some of the KTM guys need to keep drinking orange kool aid but I think we will have some of them switch. The GG is just too great a bike to ignore. The biggest problem with GG is that many people have never ridden or even seen one. My riding buddy has a WR 450 and he is a fast rider. After a spin on my EC 300, he couldn't believe how well it carved up the corners.
GMP
Active member
KTM did a wonderful job of creating a decent bike, not without flaws, and marketing the hell out of it. You were convinced it was the only way to go, regardless of the warts. They bought and paid some fast guys that could ride the bikes and did real well building their empire. Some of these guys were riding GGs on there own dime or through small local dealer sponserships, back in the GGNA days. Seems like every time there is a fast up and comming rider thats a threat KTM gets scared and throws $$ at the problem.
IMO it was more of a marketing success story than a technical engineering triumph. If GGs timing was like KTMs, and they started out with more $$ from a core business like KTM, the result would have been at least as good based on the product itself. If you ignore everything but the bikes themselves, and compare them on equal terms, there is no question that the GG is better bike for many riders. Hey, if your getting free or cheap bikes to ride, and parts, you'll keep your mouth shut and ride even if your not completely happy. If your spending your own coin, your loyal to no one and should ride what feels right to you, not what someone tells you is right just because a lot of other guys ride them.
IMO it was more of a marketing success story than a technical engineering triumph. If GGs timing was like KTMs, and they started out with more $$ from a core business like KTM, the result would have been at least as good based on the product itself. If you ignore everything but the bikes themselves, and compare them on equal terms, there is no question that the GG is better bike for many riders. Hey, if your getting free or cheap bikes to ride, and parts, you'll keep your mouth shut and ride even if your not completely happy. If your spending your own coin, your loyal to no one and should ride what feels right to you, not what someone tells you is right just because a lot of other guys ride them.
Clay
Banned
A lot of people forget that KTM filed bankruptcy in the early 90s and then was bought out of bankruptcy by the current owners. They did a great job of building a good motorcycle when the Japanese brands were abandoning off road. They appealed to the core off road guy and they were the only company to do that.
Now they have competition from other Euro companies. I think competition is healthy for all of us. As an example, KTM is now putting lights back on the XCW models due to other companies putting lights on their bikes, just like KTM forced the Japanese companies to put premium handlebars on their bikes.
The orange motorcycle is an excellent motorcycle but ours is better. It took 15 years for the US customers to figure out that KTM makes a great motorcycle. I don't think it will take as long for us to convince buyers what a good motorcycle we have.
Now they have competition from other Euro companies. I think competition is healthy for all of us. As an example, KTM is now putting lights back on the XCW models due to other companies putting lights on their bikes, just like KTM forced the Japanese companies to put premium handlebars on their bikes.
The orange motorcycle is an excellent motorcycle but ours is better. It took 15 years for the US customers to figure out that KTM makes a great motorcycle. I don't think it will take as long for us to convince buyers what a good motorcycle we have.
