air screw doesnt afected RPM

D

drn51

New member
Hi,

curently run my ec300 2011 with stock setup:

n1ef#2 (i change from 1 to 2 just for testing)

p40

main 175

carb 38 with two screw on the top.

15 degree C and about 200m

I decided to play with the carb as i noticed that the bike is dinging during the riding in very slow up hill and tecnichal area.( my favorite place)


looking for linear and smoth power for tecnichal riding.

turning the AS all the way in will shut down the engine, but as i pull out the screw the engine is live but there is no any diffrence between one or two or three or four out .

why the AS doesnt make a change?

where should i need to satrt?
 
drn51 said:
Hi,

curently run my ec300 2011 with stock setup:

n1ef#2 (i change from 1 to 2 just for testing)

p40

main 175

carb 38 with two screw on the top.

15 degree C and about 200m

I decided to play with the carb as i noticed that the bike is dinging during the riding in very slow up hill and tecnichal area.( my favorite place)


looking for linear and smoth power for tecnichal riding.

turning the AS all the way in will shut down the engine, but as i pull out the screw the engine is live but there is no any diffrence between one or two or three or four out .

why the AS doesnt make a change?

where should i need to satrt?
Click to expand...

Where is the idle screw set?? Is it wound right in binding the spring up against the carb body? I'm guessing it is. Essentially this lifts the slide so far up that you are bypassing the pilot circuit which is why it has very little effect.

Many have found this issue with the stock needle and have had better results using others. Check the jetting section. Basically a leaner needle diameter with a bigger pilot will allow you to drop the slide and bring the pilot into effect.
 
currently i leave it 1.5 out.

but even 2,3,4 out doesnt make change.

so i how to start from this point?

why you think i need to lean?

during hard enduro riding ( first gear and clutch) the bike is increase RPM a while like a dinging...
 
Jakobi said:
Where is the idle screw set?? Is it wound right in binding the spring up against the carb body? I'm guessing it is. Essentially this lifts the slide so far up that you are bypassing the pilot circuit which is why it has very little effect.

Many have found this issue with the stock needle and have had better results using others. Check the jetting section. Basically a leaner needle diameter with a bigger pilot will allow you to drop the slide and bring the pilot into effect.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about making it leaner at idle. I'm saying if you're right in on the idle screw that the pilot circuit is out of effect. Usually if you're too rich on the needle diameter you need to lift the slide to let more air in to get the right mixture. The ding/pipe bang can also be caused by a rich condition when the bike is hot and an unburnt fuel charge (excess fuel) is ignited in the pipe. Use the search engine a bit. Pretty common topic ;)
 
Thanks

Jakobi said:
Where is the idle screw set?? Is it wound right in binding the spring up against the carb body? I'm guessing it is. Essentially this lifts the slide so far up that you are bypassing the pilot circuit which is why it has very little effect.

Many have found this issue with the stock needle and have had better results using others. Check the jetting section. Basically a leaner needle diameter with a bigger pilot will allow you to drop the slide and bring the pilot into effect.
Click to expand...

Never had it put that way: clears up a couple things in my mind

Thanks!!
 
Just try the needle on the top clip and ensure the idle screw is low (as per Jakobi) and the start the air screw at 1 1/2.

I have found this the best jetting for a 2011 EC300 with the 38mm carb and the stock 0.5mm base gasket. I ride at similar alt and temps. It is almost unstallable and linear in power.
 
The needle jet bore is a fixed diameter. You need a needle with a large shank diameter so less fuel passes by the needle at slow speed. This will make the pilot circuit more effective.

As the air screw is turned out (leaner) the revs increase. The farther out you have the air screw the better, because now you can drop the slide to get the correct idle speed. Thus the throttle has to open more before the needle taper adds fuel.

The engine will run much crisper off idle and slow speed riding will be improved.

N1EF is often too rich even with the clip in the top groove.
 
Neil E. said:
The needle jet bore is a fixed diameter. You need a needle with a large shank diameter so less fuel passes by the needle at slow speed. This will make the pilot circuit more effective.

As the air screw is turned out (leaner) the revs increase. The farther out you have the air screw the better, because now you can drop the slide to get the correct idle speed. Thus the throttle has to open more before the needle taper adds fuel.

The engine will run much crisper off idle and slow speed riding will be improved.

N1EF is often too rich even with the clip in the top groove.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was saying, just explained in some more depth.

Once the pilot circuit is dialled in a clip position change, or change to another needle (with the same diameter) shouldn't have any real effect on the idle. If a clip pos change has a big effect on idle speed/off idle response its likely you have the slide raised too far and are pulling over/bypassing idle circuit.

Keg is right that the N1EF will somewhat work in the top clip position. I ran like this for a while but experienced a few symptoms. Idle screw right in causing a low inconsistant idle. Heaps of smoke and spooge even when up to temp. In single trail it would begin to load up the plug and need to be frequently cleared out, and fuel consumption was out of control.
 
I previously ran the N1EG (leaner in the straight section) on earlier gassers but the 2011 seems to like the N1EF.
 
Thannks guys,
I thought that need to change the pilot jet when the air screw isn?t affecting.

Anyway, I will follow after your advice to lean the needle.

Under those condition can I have recommendation for the rquired needle instead of the N1EF?
 
You could try a few sizes smaller on the pilot to lean the mixture while dropping the idle scerew back down once it comes into effect. With this approach I found I would then get the pilot right but still have a rich burble at 1/8 throttle from the rich needle diameter. Thats why we have suggested a leaner diameter with a bigger pilot.

As for needles if you like the deliver and power you already have could try a N1EI (I haven't tried this) An NOZI/NOZJ (one I really want to try). NEDW/NEDJ (Suzki needles smooth power). N3EW/N3EJ (Yamaha snappy power).
 
Thanks Jakobi.

This is the second time i heard good thing about the NEDJ for smoth power.


In the web i find only at USA with limited shipment.

any recomended place to order at Europe?
 
Any suzuki dealer :)

Might be a few week back order out of Japan but they sure can get them for you
 
nedj

hello i too have a problem with no idle on a 2008 250 ec n1ef top clip idle screw all the way in.i have ordered a nedj needle to replace the n1ef do i need to go bigger on the pilot or smaller to get it to idle.currently running a 40 pilot and 178 main.runs ok but no idle.what im getting at is an nedj leaner than a n1ef.
 
I would have probably got an NEDH/NEDW for a 250. The J diameter will work, its just leaner. The needle is quite a bit leaner on the straight section. Quite a bit leaner in the first taper and then runs about the same as the N1EF through mid to WOT.

I'd probably suggest a 48/45 pilot to start with. I run a 42 with a J in my 300 which will pull more fuel through the jets due to a larger vacuum from the bigger piston.
 
It'll be safe mate.

The diameter is only in effect from 0 - 1/8th throttle which overlaps or pairs up with the pilot.

I'd start the 45 NEDJ#3 175 and adjust from there as required. Listen to the engine and it will tell you what it needs.
 
needles

thanks mate im still learning the jetting game not hads a 2 stroke for a couple of years.just want to get it to idle nicely and work from there.thanks for your help
 
If you throw it together with the new pilot and needle with the slide in the same spot you'll notice it will rev really high, particularly after a blip of the throttle. Don't immediately freak out. Just keep backing the idle screw back until it wants to stall and then back in some.

If you have the idle screw wound all the way in with the N1EF that indicates that the fuel mixture at idle is far too rich so you lift the slide to alow more air. The problem is after a certain point you come off the straight section onto the needle taper which is why you then get such an intermittent idle.

Looking down the carb throat with the slide in you should be able to see only a small window between the bottom and the slide. Say 2 or 3mm
 
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