Autoclutch: Love em or hate em?

[jgas]

I'm starting this thread, so I admit up front I'm not really a lover or hater of Rekluse or whatever-autoclutch system. But I do have an opinion.

Pros: They do most of your clutch work for you. Some say they help them get through the tough stuff. They say they get less tired using one. Does that about cover it? I think so.

Cons:
1- Rear tire will freewheel since the engine is essentially in neutral when you stall on a steep hill. With a regular clutch the motor will hold the back tire from freewheeling.
2- Engine braking is very altered and somewhat unpredictable.
3- Can't pull start or bump start the bike.
4- Increased cost of the parts and installation if you can't do it yourself.
5- Decreased reliability. Many will argue this, but I sure have seen and ridden alot of bikes with auto-clutches that don't work properly. Sure, you can adjust them, but not as easily as simply having a hydraulic or cable operated normal clutch.
6- Operation changes with wear. I once started a long ride with an autoclutch. By the half-day mark, the engagement was very different. There was a significant lag between my application of throttle and it engaging. By the end of the second day, there was about a 1.5 second lag between the clutch engaging when trying to jump a log or whatever obstacle, and my application of the clutch and throttle. Very hard to predict.
7- Makes you lazy. Rather than stay on top of your clutch operation skills, you expect the clutch to work itself. Which is fine until it decides to quit working consistently.
8- Did I miss anything?

I think the cons are worse than the pros.

I also theorize that a big part of what many riders like about autoclutches is that they add "flywheel effect". Which can also be accomplished by a hundred buck flywheel weight that never needs adjusting and takes 20 minutes to install. No, I don't work for Steahly, but they should hire me.

I'm ducking the thrown roost now! Autoclutch lovers swear by them. But have they really tried the alternatives of learning how to use the clutch properly, and maybe a flywheel weight, or even simply practicing and checking lap times both ways? Very few pros use them, even most of the Extreme Enduro guys don't use them. Very few pro GNCC, Nat. Enduro, MX, WORCS, OMA, ISDE guys use them. A few do, but not many.

I've tried it both ways. Autoclutches absolutely do help at times. They truly do have a few good points. But I think they have far more bad points, and many riders who use them simply aren't really giving an honest shot to not using one with proper setup and practice. I think they are putting a bandaid on their problems of not setting up their bike as best they can for themselves, and not learning how to ride without the bandaid.

I think I'm gonna need some bandaids when they start throwing worn out ramps, balls, and clutch plates at me. And Rekluse instructions they ball up in their fists.

 

[SGM]

My thoughts are that it's a good thing in nasty terrain, but it comes with it's drawbacks, the ones you listed - and a deal breaker for me - I try to always ride with a finger on the clutch, and the front brake.

It's a safety thing for me...I can't help but assume getting lazy with the clutch, could mean that there'd be a risk for me to be caught out...I've had my shares of passenger rides on bigger bikes through the woods when it starts to get out of hand.

 

[john01]

I have mixed feelings myself but love the EXP on my 165 Husky. I'm an old 53 year old fart that just plays on the MX track and in the woods. Lot's of times I'm just riding with the grandkids. It sure makes things easier when going that slow through the woods . I also had the Rekluse Pro on my 07 Honda CR450 and it REALLY helped mellow out that thing. If I was yonger and raced MX... no I wouldn't need one. If I raced the woods....probable would have one. The way I see it is I'm not an expert woods or MX rider and never was so I'll take a little help when I can get it. Pro's don't need a crutch they have skills. I won't forget how to use a clutch having two other bikes without an auto clutch either. Life is full of pros and cons; choice is nice. Now.....DUCK !

 

[nambo-trev]

I really didn't like the auto clutch, I had the exp and hated the feeling of it everytime I rode. Yes I had it adjusted correctly and yes I'm sure it works great for some but I would never put one in a bike I owned again. Just me though

 

[andoman]

My 2 Cents

I have had 5 bikes with auto clutches. Z-Start, Pro, and now my Gasser has a Core EXP. I'll address several of your points.

I'm starting this thread, so I admit up front I'm not really a lover or hater of Rekluse or whatever-autoclutch system. But I do have an opinion.

Pros: They do most of your clutch work for you. Some say they help them get through the tough stuff. They say they get less tired using one. Does that about cover it? I think so. I think there are more "pros." I'll list specifics in addressing your cons below.

Cons:
1- Rear tire will freewheel since the engine is essentially in neutral when you stall on a steep hill. With a regular clutch the motor will hold the back tire from freewheeling. True. But even with a standard clutch, you have to pull it in or put the bike in neutral to get started. So the front brake is the only thing holding the bike from sliding backwards at some point. With the autoclutch, I never stall on a hill. If I come to a stop, the bike just patiently idles. All my bikes have also had the dual actuated LHRB. The pros of which are for another discussion...
2- Engine braking is very altered and somewhat unpredictable. Not so. Correct tuning of the clutch makes engine braking unchanged.
3- Can't pull start or bump start the bike. Agreed. Probably the one true drawback. But really only a factor if you have an e-start only bike.
4- Increased cost of the parts and installation if you can't do it yourself. [COLOR="Red"Yep. Costs $ for sure. But for me it is a valuable tool. Like a steering stabilizer. Install is DYI. If someone can't install it themselves, he can't change a tire or a sparkplug. So he'll need to work on his mechanical skills our this sport will be VERY expensive... [/COLOR]
5- Decreased reliability. Many will argue this, but I sure have seen and ridden alot of bikes with auto-clutches that don't work properly. Sure, you can adjust them, but not as easily as simply having a hydraulic or cable operated normal clutch. [COLOR="Red"]Reliability hasn't been an issue for me. I have taken time to set them up properly. Agreed that there is a bit more maintenance required to keep the gap in spec. But the new Core EXP is the easiest to adjust and maintain. Not an issue any more.[/COLOR]
6- Operation changes with wear. I once started a long ride with an autoclutch. By the half-day mark, the engagement was very different. There was a significant lag between my application of throttle and it engaging. By the end of the second day, there was about a 1.5 second lag between the clutch engaging when trying to jump a log or whatever obstacle, and my application of the clutch and throttle. Very hard to predict. If your gap got out of spec during a ride, its because you had never, ever checked it since install. If there is a lot of wear, its because the clutch is being abused. Its an auto clutch, not an auto tranny. The rider still has to be in the correct gear. Any rider can smoke a standard clutch in one ride by abusing it.
7- Makes you lazy. Rather than stay on top of your clutch operation skills, you expect the clutch to work itself. Which is fine until it decides to quit working consistently. Lazy is poor word choice. Its a tool that makes me a better and faster rider.
8- Did I miss anything? No. For those that don't like auto clutches you pretty much covered what others have said.

I think the cons are worse than the pros. I cede your viewpoint as one mans point of view. But my viewpoint is that I think the pros far outweigh the cons...

I also theorize that a big part of what many riders like about autoclutches is that they add "flywheel effect". Which can also be accomplished by a hundred buck flywheel weight that never needs adjusting and takes 20 minutes to install. No, I don't work for Steahly, but they should hire me. I have never noticed the flywheel effect. The clutch spins so much slower than the flywheel, that mass added there has very little effect.

I'm ducking the thrown roost now! Autoclutch lovers swear by them. But have they really tried the alternatives of learning how to use the clutch properly, and maybe a flywheel weight, or even simply practicing and checking lap times both ways? Very few pros use them, even most of the Extreme Enduro guys don't use them. Very few pro GNCC, Nat. Enduro, MX, WORCS, OMA, ISDE guys use them. A few do, but not many. I would argue that there are more than a "few" elite riders that use an auto clutch. I have very competent clutch skills honed over 4 decades of riding. But no one is perfect. Less than perfect clutch work happens to every rider on every ride. Except me: Cuz I have an auto clutch...

I've tried it both ways. Autoclutches absolutely do help at times. They truly do have a few good points. But I think they have far more bad points, and many riders who use them simply aren't really giving an honest shot to not using one with proper setup and practice. I think they are putting a bandaid on their problems of not setting up their bike as best they can for themselves, and not learning how to ride without the bandaid. I don't think its a bandaid. Those that love the auto clutch have added a piece of gear that greatly adds to their enjoyment of the sport. That's pretty much it.

I think I'm gonna need some bandaids when they start throwing worn out ramps, balls, and clutch plates at me. And Rekluse instructions they ball up in their fists. The Core EXP lookes very, very reliable to me. I'm betting that it will last as long as my stock components.

No flame intended from any of my comments. You have highlighted lots of valid issues that have brought some back to the standard clutch. But for me, I would much rather have an auto clutch on my bike: I put it in the same category as stabilizer, bark busters, and skidplate. On my bikes, the auto clutch will always be there.

 

[desertgasser300]

This topic is like beating a dead horse. If you don't like an auto clutch then don't use one!

I have one and always will and I can give a rats A@# what anybody thinks about them, they are not me!

 

[bowhunter007]

If you don't like an auto clutch then don't use one!

I had an opportunity to ride a '12 300 xc-w a couple months ago, owned by a local enduro guy. He let me ride through some nasty technical single-track. I must admit, If I wasn't spending money keeping my fleet happy, or upgrading to better riding gear...I'd have one in my primary scoot.

 

[robicon]

I love the auto clutch! I think it is the best thing that has come out in along time! But I don't run one in my bike nor do I plan to, I have tried one and it was very fun to hammer the rear brake into every corner. I have seen many people greatly improve and no longer cry on the trails I love.
I don't plan on using one because I ride trials and that is all clutch so the more I can use it the better.
It is like anything else why do you ride a 300 and not a 125?

 

[M357.5]

I'm on the fence, but have never ridden a bike with an auto clutch.

Whats holding me back is the cost, $900 for a clutch is a lot of $$$

I've been thinking about adding one to my bike this winter though. My thoughts are that its expensive, but I dont plan on selling my bike to upgrade to a 13 0r 14....or anytime in the next 5 years. My 2011 is more bike than I need now so an upgrade to my clutch makes more sense than spending coin on a new bike.

Think i'll have one before spring

Now i'm back to oiling filters and changing the spark plug.....Listening to some Motorhead and chillin with a beer.

 

[PEB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chBPe88f5ns

Of course a handbrake would have solved this dilemma, I take great pleasure while riding modulating the clutch and when I want the absolute most control is right off idle.

 

[TavisB]

Love my Core EXP!

 

[nambo-trev]

This topic is like beating a dead horse. If you don't like an auto clutch then don't use one!

I have one and always will and I can give a rats A@# what anybody thinks about them, they are not me!

I think the same thing just the opposite, I could give a rats ass who swears by them and love them because there not me and I don't like them at all ill never run one on one of my bikes again! The horse is definetly dead lol

 

[fasteddy]

I installed a PRO exp in my 2011 250 race, first one for me..I've 4 decades of experience and decided to give the auto clutch a try. My impressions are as follows, easy to install, easy to adjust, didn't take long to get used to, engine braking works as it used to.. Shifting is still smooth and precise. Clutch engagement doesn't change, I've 50 hours on my GasGas and the EXP, I've adjusted the clutch twice, once after the initial breaking and then once after about 25 hours, the second adjustment wasn't really needed..
I didn't know what to expect from the clutch, I had ridden a buddies bike that had a early version Rekluse.. There really wasn't much to like about it, it did not have a clutch lever override, it basically sucked in the wet, off cambers were a nightmare.. I decided to try the EXP PRO as it touts to have a clutch override that works as normal.. And... it does.... It works normally if you want to use it, I'm finding however that there is no real need to use it. The auto clutch works flawlessly, I find that it allows me to concentrate on the terrain not on putting the right power to the ground, the auto clutch does it for me.. I'll say it, it's like cheating, I think as I age and riding difficult terrain becomes harder the autoclutch will give me more years of fun.. Just my opinion...I'm sold..

Ed....

 

[jgas]

Ando-man, you defended using an autoclutch better in one post than all the posts I've read. I have only had the original Rekluse in a DRZ 400, which is one bike that is so smooth and predictable it does not need one and the stock clutch is fantastic. I hear the newer Rekluse versions are better. When mine wore out after about 2 years, I just went back to a stock clutch and didn't regret it. If I still rode a 500 2 stroke, I would absolutely have an autoclutch because the stock clutches on all those old big bore bikes was grabby, unpredictable, and went through alot of plates. Also those older big 2 stroke bikes were very easy to stall and hard to manage the power delivery.

On all of the later model bikes I've ridden, the stock clutches are getting better and better. My 01 GG clutch is silky smooth, the bike doesn't stall easily, and it's relatively easy to manage the power. If the stock clutch wasn't so good, or the bike harder to manage, I might go to an autoclutch. I may be forced to go back to one anyway as my old injuries are becoming harder to overcome. I may have to have my right foot amputated at some point, so I am always interested in keeping up with all innovations regarding bikes. If I have to lose my foot I will probably have to go to a left hand rear brake, so an autoclutch would be almost mandatory I'd think. Part of why I started this thread was to learn more. I still stand by my decision to not use one for now though.

I have always said that anyone and everyone should always try new things to help them ride better, including products, training techniques, riding techniques, bike setup, whatever. You'll never know if something will work for you without trying.

One of the points I brought up was flywheel effect. I can feel it on any bike that I've ever ridden before and after adding an autoclutch. As for clutch rotation being slower than engine rotation, it's true, but simply try changing your aluminum clutch plates for steel some time. You are only adding maybe a half pound or so, but you will feel the difference. It will feel similar to adding about a 6-8 oz flywheel weight on most bikes. Not a huge change, but noticeable.

I agree that if an autoclutch is perfectly set up, there is little effect on engine braking, UNTIL the rpms fall very low, then every one I've ever ridden suddenly goes from having some engine braking, to none, and it's immediate. I can get used to it after an hour of riding, but I still prefer the engine braking being constant. And I am an old school guy who loves engine braking! I know alot of riders hate it, therefor an autoclutch may benefit them more than me.

I think beating dead horses is a good idea. Sometimes they aren't dead, just asleep. Kick them a little and they just might get up!

 

[desertgasser300]

Ando-man, you defended using an autoclutch better in one post than all the posts I've read. I have only had the original Rekluse in a DRZ 400, which is one bike that is so smooth and predictable it does not need one and the stock clutch is fantastic. I hear the newer Rekluse versions are better. When mine wore out after about 2 years, I just went back to a stock clutch and didn't regret it. If I still rode a 500 2 stroke, I would absolutely have an autoclutch because the stock clutches on all those old big bore bikes was grabby, unpredictable, and went through alot of plates. Also those older big 2 stroke bikes were very easy to stall and hard to manage the power delivery.

On all of the later model bikes I've ridden, the stock clutches are getting better and better. My 01 GG clutch is silky smooth, the bike doesn't stall easily, and it's relatively easy to manage the power. If the stock clutch wasn't so good, or the bike harder to manage, I might go to an autoclutch. I may be forced to go back to one anyway as my old injuries are becoming harder to overcome. I may have to have my right foot amputated at some point, so I am always interested in keeping up with all innovations regarding bikes. If I have to lose my foot I will probably have to go to a left hand rear brake, so an autoclutch would be almost mandatory I'd think. Part of why I started this thread was to learn more. I still stand by my decision to not use one for now though.

I have always said that anyone and everyone should always try new things to help them ride better, including products, training techniques, riding techniques, bike setup, whatever. You'll never know if something will work for you without trying.

One of the points I brought up was flywheel effect. I can feel it on any bike that I've ever ridden before and after adding an autoclutch. As for clutch rotation being slower than engine rotation, it's true, but simply try changing your aluminum clutch plates for steel some time. You are only adding maybe a half pound or so, but you will feel the difference. It will feel similar to adding about a 6-8 oz flywheel weight on most bikes. Not a huge change, but noticeable.

I agree that if an autoclutch is perfectly set up, there is little effect on engine braking, UNTIL the rpms fall very low, then every one I've ever ridden suddenly goes from having some engine braking, to none, and it's immediate. I can get used to it after an hour of riding, but I still prefer the engine braking being constant. And I am an old school guy who loves engine braking! I know alot of riders hate it, therefor an autoclutch may benefit them more than me.

I think beating dead horses is a good idea. Sometimes they aren't dead, just asleep. Kick them a little and they just might get up!

Trying to DEFEND why we or anyone chooses to use an auto clutch, IS beating a dead horse. You used the word, "defend" in your first sentence.

There is no point to this thread, but merely to stir up an argument. You could even go as far to say, why use flexx bars? Why use USD forks? Why use a dampner? etc.....

You stated that you had to simply put it, "no dog in this fight!" But then go on to list a page full of cons about it. How much longer are we going to split and segregate ourselves from each other because of the choice of equipment we use? I see this from your first post as calling auto clutch users "Lazy?" I know alot of good riders that use them and I would be hesitant to call them lazy!

Either you are really bored or just like stirring the pot?

 

[Jakobi]

Hahah! The dead horse loves it!

I dont think anyone is giving it to anyone else based on their choices here? The original post just indicated that they felt that there were more con's than pro's to owning one. Its like arguing about which brand of tyre is better. What floats one persons boat might not float anothers. Some might run fresh rubber every ride. Is that cheating? Cause it makes a whole lot of difference in being able to put the power to the ground. Then again if I had decent clutch skills I'd be able to put power to my bald tyre just right.. All the time.

Do what ya want! I just wanna ride!

 

[phoenix]

I love being lazy! We've had three (2 Pros and 1 Core EXP) and i'm going to get one for my new '13 300 just because it is so nice to have that security blanket. The bike is very easy to ride without it, though.

 

[Clay]

Sometimes it's not a matter of being lazy. Age has a way of slowing down the reflexes and sometimes technology comes along and gives us something that helps make up for the things that time takes away. If I can use an open mind to new things to gain a second on the younger guys, I'll take it.

 

[john01]

Yep me too... getting old sucks .

 

[GasGas]

I certainly like my Core EXP. Lets me start my bike in 2nd gear on the line of a dead engine start with my left hand still on my helmet. I've been getting way better starts with the auto clutch and pretty much evens out the field with the guys that have the magic button. I still use my clutch all the time like I always did. Now I just never stall. It's been stone reliable and has only required 1 adjustment since setup this spring. I ride a fair bit too. We do lots of hill climbs on our rides and the auto clutch is a big advantage on the steep climbs. The high cost to purchase is the only real drawback for me.