Bad Noise

[roostafish]

New years day I heard an ugly "screech" from my bike. I couldn't tell if it was engine, transmission, or simply a rock caught in the countershaft. It happened a couple of times, and I was seeking it out. I got to a road and looked at the counter shaft area, caked with muc, rolled it back and forth. Rode it through all six gears several times (easy). and scratched my head. I drained the oil and found nothing of concern. I thought about it for a while, and the noise just didn't seem like it came at an engine speed, more of a moving speed.

Anyway, all of this to say.... I'm paraniod. My last bike, an XC 250 went through 4 left crank bearings, and it's new owner is on his fifth set. I have only put 2000 miles on this EC 300, and it's been a champion. Truly a bulletproof ride so far. However, if I have to dig into this baby and replace a bizzare failure of some sort, I may be looking elsewhere for a ride. I absolutely love the way this bike handles and rides. The motor is perfect, the suspension unbelievable, the turning like no other. I really like it. Like I said though, I can no longer tolerate a bike that is a grenade. Somebody out there give me some reassurance. I've found myself looking out there for TM 300's, and Husqvarna WR 250's. There's really good deals out there. Give me a reason to stay! I'm not panicking yet, but the feelers are out.

 

[GMP]

What year? My '00 did that. On the pre '02 transmissions, there were plain bearings on several gears that were later updated to needle bearings. Sometimes, like on a fast road, this bearing interface would actually bind and screech for several seconds at a time, almost like a partial seizure. As the bike got more hours on it it stopped. I rebuilt the motor after two years, looked at every part in detail. Nothing was obviously wrong, just highly polished surfaces of these bearing areas. That '00 XC250 is owned by member bucksnbikes and still runs fine to this day with no issues. My '03 and '07 never made a sound.

The newer trans parts drop right in, and if I remember add up to around $250.

 

[jeffd]

Hey Glenn,
Mike (roostafish) bought my old 2001 ec300. I had some clutch noise when I used mobil-1 synthetic atf in the trans and when it sat for a long time, the clutch plates stuck together one time (the clutch wouldn't disengage when I took it out of storage). It made a few noises until the plates were properly bathed in oil again. I switched oils - either mobil-1 diesel 5w40 synth or rotella 5w40 synth blend and never saw a problem after that...

Mike -
What are you using for tranny lube these days? How long was the bike sitting before this ride? How far into the ride did it happen - was it at the beginning?
If it was mucky crap with a little rock in it - are you sure it wasn't coming from one of the brake rotors? Or it could have been a rock jammed between the case guard and the chain for a tad...

I would switch to rotella 5w40 (walmart) and not worry til you have something (more) to worry about...

jeff

p.s. Mike's previous bike was a '99 six days unit with WP conventional forks - very rare and very cool. My understanding is the bearing failure issue with this bike was with the machining of the cases and they have since been replaced by the importer...

 

[GMP]

The clutch could of course squeal too but I would think that would be obvious to an experienced rider. The trans bearing issue was discussed a few years back on the old Smackover board. It wasn't a big problem. The trans oil may have an effect on that as well. Light is good, Rotella 5W-40W. Should be fine if its run this long.

 

[roostafish]

I certainly thought about the brakes, but the noise came from the left side of the engine. I thought for sure it was from the countershaft the first time, but as it did it again, and again, I thought perhaps transmission. My bike sat for six weeks (recovering from ankle surgery) before this trip. The noise happened almost at the end of the day.

Ugh, transmission oil could have been anything. I have been using up my old stock of oil from my previous sponsors. I had leftover Bel Ray, leftover Maxima MTF, and leftover Bardahl. I've had a few oil sponsors over the years, both from teams, and individual, my stockpile is now gone though. I think I dumped the last bottle in yesterday. It's not Rotella. But I have some. I'll use that next.

I hate to be so paranoid, but that '99 six days bike stranded me too many times. The new owner did indeed have the case replaced (for FREE) and I thought we'd heard the end of it. I found out Tuesday that he is now replacing his crank bearings for the 5th time. That makes nine times total. I heard that in the morning before my ride, so you can imagine what that did for me mentally when I heard that screech! Yikes. I've been stewing.

It was certainly not clutch noise, although the plates were stuck together when I took off first thing. It didn't surprise me though, since the bike has been sitting for a month and a half.

 

[MattR]

... that '99 six days bike stranded me too many times. The new owner did indeed have the case replaced (for FREE) and I thought we'd heard the end of it. I found out Tuesday that he is now replacing his crank bearings for the 5th time. That makes nine times total.

This many crank bearings seems odd to me. 1-2 times would be bad enough, so you got me thinking. Did you/he ever replace the crank assembly? Perhaps the cases did not cause the misalignment. If it has a chronic problem, I would think the root cause may be the crankshaft itself (either bent or not machined concentrically from the factory). It would be interesting to know what the crankshaft runout was with a dial-indicator. Just curious...

 

[GMP]

The old bearing problem has been with press fits of the crank journals in the bearings, and bearings in the cases, as well as bore alignment in a few cases. My '00 had a LOOSE fitting crank in the left side bearing, that wore the journal after a couple years. In '99 some were tight so they relaxed the press fit, perhaps too much. Dealer got me a new crank from GGNA 2 years later (good customer service). '02 there were a lot of internal changes like the needle trans bearings and ignition side roller bearing. When I rebuilt the '00 in '02, I used M308 high capacity bearings for the mains.

The noise is exactly as you describe, because its from the countershaft. Put some good oil in that bike and it will be fine.

Typically, cases are sold in pairs as they are align bored. Did he get the set or just one half?

 

[REVERUP]

Not to worry you but,I had the same type of experience at the beginning of 2007 while trail riding on my 2006 300 and thought I was just hearing things as you mentioned. Well several rides after that even a couple races, no problems, no noise.

First Enduro of the season, and at my favorite riding area that I know like the back of my hand, 19 miles in, she stuck!
Right side crank bearing collar came apart, I was fortunate that there was no engine damage. Les did the work on my bike and said it had adequate lubrication and that he was baffled why it came apart like that. It was a real bummer and Cost me huge in the NMA Enduro series this year 2nd open A and 8th overall. Top 7 make AA.

 

[GMP]

Now you did it Roscoe!

He'll be off looking at Husky WR250s now!

 

[roostafish]

Ha! Not looking yet. I am quite familiar with the crank bearing noises, many different types in fact. This doesn't have that sound. The trans bearing seems to make sense. I'll put in the Rotella and see what happens. At least if they fail, I can replace them with the new good ones. Though I hope I don't have to.

On the old bike. I believe that only one case half was sent to him. I'm not sure, because I get all of my information 3rd hand. The guy is a friend of a friend who I am forbidden to associate with.

If indeed I ever do get a Husky 250, I will miss the power and handling of the Gas Gas. I don't see it happening, not in the near future anyway, but at times I think about it. I have owned two Husky's. No parts ever failed on either one of them. One of them is still running around here, I see it occasionally. He has over 10,000 miles on it.

'08 GG's sure have my attention. 100:1, sealed crank bearings. That sounds cool. I can't wait to see how that progresses. One question I'd have for the R&D guys is how they found out that it was okay for the piston pin, and rod bearings to run 100:1.

 

[REVERUP]

Now you did it Roscoe!

He'll be off looking at Husky WR250s now!

Wow!!! What the heck was I thinking!!!!!

That was my bad luck experience last year, nothing more. Never had a problem with my 2004 300 2 years of abuse.

roostafish sometimes I believe it is just luck of the draw, and if things aren't quite right from the beginning, parts will fail.

So that means if you buy a Husky you will have no luck and will fail, for sure!! Well you will fail all of us on here anyways. Is that enough reason to stay on a GAS GAS.

look at MattR we shamed him back on to a Gas Gas. Well not really. He went and bought one of those other bikes. After riding it coming back was an easy decision.

I do see the allure of a Husky though as they are nice bikes, very reliable, and suspension very Gas Gas like, and with beamer buying em out it's future looks brighter than ever.

 

[tm_enduro]

Not to worry you but,I had the same type of experience at the beginning of 2007 while trail riding on my 2006 300 and thought I was just hearing things as you mentioned. Well several rides after that even a couple races, no problems, no noise.

First Enduro of the season, and at my favorite riding area that I know like the back of my hand, 19 miles in, she stuck!
Right side crank bearing collar came apart, I was fortunate that there was no engine damage. Les did the work on my bike and said it had adequate lubrication and that he was baffled why it came apart like that. It was a real bummer and Cost me huge in the NMA Enduro series this year 2nd open A and 8th overall. Top 7 make AA.

I echo the comment that it sounds like main bearings, likely a cage is coming apart, if that's the case failure is emminant.

Congrats to Reverup on the excellent overall finish, ever though you missed AA.

 

[GMP]

I might say that to if it were not for experiencing it myself, as well as the explanation, visual evidence, and subsequent upgrade.

 

[roostafish]

I'll let you all know what happens.

My experience with crank bearing failure (and I've got plenty of that) would have me believe that the bike would've stuck on that last outing. It made no subsequent noises after the screeching. The next ride will tell for sure.

When the cage let go on my 250, the engine had a hiss, or whirr to it before she stuck. No one else heard it in the group, but I am sensitive to sounds, and could tell right away that something was wrong. My brother in law kept saying, (you're paraniod, just ride it, I don't hear anything). We started up, and took off. 100 yards later, my engine seized. He had to ride back and get the truck. It was an 80 mile round trip for him, and a long wait for me.

 

[REVERUP]

Congrats to Reverup on the excellent overall finish, ever though you missed AA.

Thanks tm_enduro!

I will try again this year to succeed at my goal of AA and being the only AA GAS GAS enduro rider in the NMA series.
What am I talking about I'm already the only A Gas Gas rider in the NMA series.
The previous year before last I was 9th overall, one of these seasons will be my year, this could be it.

 

[tm_enduro]

Thanks tm_enduro!

I will try again this year to succeed at my goal of AA and being the only AA GAS GAS enduro rider in the NMA series.
What am I talking about I'm already the only A Gas Gas rider in the NMA series.
The previous year before last I was 9th overall, one of these seasons will be my year, this could be it.

Are you getting a 2008 Gasser? I keep thinking about getting a new gasser myself. Hopefully, they will get everything resolved and start shipping bikes.

 

[REVERUP]

I'm not so sure now. I really want a new one and typically replace my racing bikes every 2 seasons. But I'm thinking I may race my 2006 another year and wait for everything with this brand to settle back in.

I really don't have time to set up a bike in the middle of the series and get accustomed to its traits with out skipping a beat. I really would have liked to have had the bike by early December.

Well see, Support will be the deciding factor, if it's anything like last year it will be hard for me to swing it and train like I need to, to be successful. Just training is expensive. You know, racing is a very expensive hobby.

Roscoe

 

[tm_enduro]

I'm not so sure now. I really want a new one and typically replace my racing bikes every 2 seasons. But I'm thinking I may race my 2006 another year and wait for everything with this brand to settle back in.

I really don't have time to set up a bike in the middle of the series and get accustomed to its traits with out skipping a beat. I really would have liked to have had the bike by early December.

Well see, Support will be the deciding factor, if it's anything like last year it will be hard for me to swing it and train like I need to, to be successful. Just training is expensive. You know, racing is a very expensive hobby.

Roscoe

I am very aware of that, I agree with your wise realizations. Training 2 to 3 hrs per day and riding twice a week is time consuming and EXPENSIVE!