Beast!

[12Bravo]

I am new to riding, well it's been 20 years since I rode a dirt bike.

You all have seen my threads on the 99 EC200 I got.

This is the issue, it's a beast! Well at least to me.

Riding this week in an 1.5 acre open area it scared the crap out of me several times. I was working on keeping the power under control and not lugging the bike. There was such a small area of lugging to WOW, I can't hardly keep the front wheel on the ground!

What are my options to tame this thing, I can't see myself riding this in the woods on tight trails with rocks and logs to deal with. I can't keep it under control in a field more less an area that has real dangers to hit. It's like it is just lugging or it's wild! Would be great for a track, but I'm not riding a track nor do I want to.

 

[memphis2857]

Try riding a gear higher maybe. Or you could try to tame the hit with jetting. Maybe try a different needle. A lot of folks like the NEDW needles.


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[12Bravo]

Try riding a gear higher maybe. Or you could try to tame the hit with jetting. Maybe try a different needle. A lot of folks like the NEDW needles.


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I played with starting in 2nd to see how it handled. Has a little less punch, but luggs really bad.

NEDW needles, I'll look them up. As far a jetting goes, I have no clue where to even begin.

Will the ones I have, have numbers on them so I know what I got to begin with? When changing them, is up or down better?

I will look at post on here and try to get a feeling for it also.

Thanks

 

[memphis2857]

Yes it will be marked. Chances are it still has the n1ef needle which will make it explode like you are describing. The NEDW is a Suzuki needle and can be ordered from about anywhere. You will need to dig through some of the jetting posts on here to find the Suzuki part no.


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[12Bravo]

Yes it will be marked. Chances are it still has the n1ef needle which will make it explode like you are describing. The NEDW is a Suzuki needle and can be ordered from about anywhere. You will need to dig through some of the jetting posts on here to find the Suzuki part no.


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Thanks, will start the search now.

I am happy with the bike, just want a little less punch for now. Riding in the woods and up hills, I don't want to have to hang on for dear life. That's not fun to me anymore, did plenty of that with quads!

 

[Jakobi]

That's the joy of owning a 2 stroke! Particularly a small bore.

I haven't followed your other threads too much, so straight off the bat. What ignition is it running? Have a search here for 2K2 or 2K3. Pretty sure the smaller more aggressive lighting coil has the wires coming out of the stator cover towards the front of the engine (say 10 o'clock). If you have one of these, do you have a fly wheel weight?

Jetting, an early model 200 won't really have the same requirements as a newer 250/300 so I wouldn't expect the NEDW to be the go-to. You may find a richer NEDG/F may work, but you're getting into tinker town and would need to put the time and effort into establishing base lines and then fine tuning.

What gearing are you using? Going shorter will make it pull through the revs sooner/harder/faster but often this means you can run a gear higher and stay in the meat of the power. Taller gearing can sometimes put you in the area where the bike is constantly transitioning from off the pipe to on which in my experience makes it harder to ride. I'd rather just have the engine singing, but this leads into the next part.

Seat time. Give yourself a chance to get to learn the bike. Of course it'll be wild and crazy. You haven't been on a bike in 20years +. Dirt is another animal compared to road too. Embrace the 'oh shit' and work at slow drills learning how to modulate the clutch and throttle. It'll carry over at any speed and fundamentally make you a better rider. CLUTCH CLUTCH CLUTCH.

 

[memphis2857]

That's the joy of owning a 2 stroke! Particularly a small bore.



I haven't followed your other threads too much, so straight off the bat. What ignition is it running? Have a search here for 2K2 or 2K3. Pretty sure the smaller more aggressive lighting coil has the wires coming out of the stator cover towards the front of the engine (say 10 o'clock). If you have one of these, do you have a fly wheel weight?



Jetting, an early model 200 won't really have the same requirements as a newer 250/300 so I wouldn't expect the NEDW to be the go-to. You may find a richer NEDG/F may work, but you're getting into tinker town and would need to put the time and effort into establishing base lines and then fine tuning.



What gearing are you using? Going shorter will make it pull through the revs sooner/harder/faster but often this means you can run a gear higher and stay in the meat of the power. Taller gearing can sometimes put you in the area where the bike is constantly transitioning from off the pipe to on which in my experience makes it harder to ride. I'd rather just have the engine singing, but this leads into the next part.



Seat time. Give yourself a chance to get to learn the bike. Of course it'll be wild and crazy. You haven't been on a bike in 20years +. Dirt is another animal compared to road too. Embrace the 'oh shit' and work at slow drills learning how to modulate the clutch and throttle. It'll carry over at any speed and fundamentally make you a better rider. CLUTCH CLUTCH CLUTCH.

This!


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[12Bravo]

That's the joy of owning a 2 stroke! Particularly a small bore.

I haven't followed your other threads too much, so straight off the bat. What ignition is it running? Have a search here for 2K2 or 2K3. Pretty sure the smaller more aggressive lighting coil has the wires coming out of the stator cover towards the front of the engine (say 10 o'clock). If you have one of these, do you have a fly wheel weight?

Jetting, an early model 200 won't really have the same requirements as a newer 250/300 so I wouldn't expect the NEDW to be the go-to. You may find a richer NEDG/F may work, but you're getting into tinker town and would need to put the time and effort into establishing base lines and then fine tuning.

What gearing are you using? Going shorter will make it pull through the revs sooner/harder/faster but often this means you can run a gear higher and stay in the meat of the power. Taller gearing can sometimes put you in the area where the bike is constantly transitioning from off the pipe to on which in my experience makes it harder to ride. I'd rather just have the engine singing, but this leads into the next part.

Seat time. Give yourself a chance to get to learn the bike. Of course it'll be wild and crazy. You haven't been on a bike in 20years +. Dirt is another animal compared to road too. Embrace the 'oh shit' and work at slow drills learning how to modulate the clutch and throttle. It'll carry over at any speed and fundamentally make you a better rider. CLUTCH CLUTCH CLUTCH.

Bwhahahahaha, "Embrace the 'oh shit'...."

That's great, reminds me of the Army days of "Embrace the Suck".

I have been working on the clutch, it is different! I believe I have the 2k2 in it, the gearing I have no clue and not even sure how to check that? Count the teeth on sprockets?

When you said off the pipe then on, this is what is happening. Either it is lugging or sluggish or it is hold on to this "Raped Ape"! Standing up, when it hits is out of the question right now!

For example, I was playing with where the hit is and where I can get on it and still not be crazy. It hits really hard at a little under 1/2 throttle, so keeping the RPM's up to practice hopping the front end is really odd and hard. It either stalls or wants to rip the bike out of my hands, there is NOTHING smooth like I experienced in the past.

 

[Terrence R]

A flywheel weight will help for sure along with jetting as Jakobi mentioned. U can start by lifting your needle one clip (moving the clip down one) and going up one size on your pilot jet. It may be a little lean on bottom right now, which could cause it to turn on hard when it finally gets enough fuel in the mid range. I'm not sure what pilot jet is in your bike right now, but if there's a 38 in there, stepping up to a 40 could help (just an example as I'm not sure what size Pilot jet is currently in your carb). Does your bike idle well? Almost sounds like it's bogging on bottom; based on your description of it bursting into power once near mid throttle.

 

[Jakobi]

Bwhahahahaha, "Embrace the 'oh shit'...."

That's great, reminds me of the Army days of "Embrace the Suck".

I have been working on the clutch, it is different! I believe I have the 2k2 in it, the gearing I have no clue and not even sure how to check that? Count the teeth on sprockets?

When you said off the pipe then on, this is what is happening. Either it is lugging or sluggish or it is hold on to this "Raped Ape"! Standing up, when it hits is out of the question right now!

For example, I was playing with where the hit is and where I can get on it and still not be crazy. It hits really hard at a little under 1/2 throttle, so keeping the RPM's up to practice hopping the front end is really odd and hard. It either stalls or wants to rip the bike out of my hands, there is NOTHING smooth like I experienced in the past.

Count the teeth on the sprockets. I'd imagine something around 13-50/52 front-rear would be in the average mans working area.

The powervalve opens with rpm, based off centrifugal force. It's possible to add/remove shims to the spring to change the timing in which the pv opens, but it does require removal of the rhs engine cover to do so.

If you have a 2K2 ignition I'd be investigating a flywheel weight. The 2K3 has much more inertia than even a 2K2 with a weight. This will slow down the the rate at which the engine spools up, as well as making it less prone to stall.

 

[12Bravo]

While we are talking about jetting and taming this beast. I have A LOT of Spooge!

Like it runs out of freshly packed silencer and comes out of the hockey stick and is literally dripping onto the swing arm!

I mix at 50:1

 

[gasgasxc]

I heard the KDX 200 is a bit of an untameable beast also.
Just what I heard.

 

[95jersey]

You should be in the attack position. Not a relaxed, laid back seating position. Head at or over the bars, knees and elbows bent, leaning forward.

I am very surprised you have this experience. I have ridden a 200 and thought it was like riding a mini bike compared to my 300. The 200 are especially known for being easy to ride. You may want to consider a 4 stroke.

 

[poelinca]

You should be in the attack position. Not a relaxed, laid back seating position. Head at or over the bars, knees and elbows bent, leaning forward.

I am very surprised you have this experience. I have ridden a 200 and thought it was like riding a mini bike compared to my 300. The 200 are especially known for being easy to ride. You may want to consider a 4 stroke.

RE: attack position, i would add (as my instructor said) "balls over the gas cap" if you are sitting down

 

[nknudsen]

I heard the KDX 200 is a bit of an untameable beast also.
Just what I heard.

Right up there with a CR500 or KX500

 

[gasser]

Let's look at the big picture. 1st a 200 gasser should not run in the way you describe so something is definitely wrong. My understanding of what you said is that the motor runs very poorly and weak at lower throttle settings then clears up very quickly to run strong. If that is the case you have a jetting problem (or something that affects your jetting). Gearing and flywheel weights can help modify a bike to your personal needs but it would be best if you get your jetting needs settled first. Start by looking at your oil. Does it have a flash point over 300 degrees Fahrenheit? If it does your slow riding may be loading the cylinder and pipe up with unburned oil causing the motor to load up until it revs fast enough to blow itself out. Keep your oil ratio the same but switch to an oil that has a flash point near or below 200F. You may want to find a big open field or dirt road where you can run the bike at high throttle for an extended time to blow the excess oil out of the pipe and silencer. Next I suggest you drop in the appropriate Suzuki needle (Jacobi is the guru on jetting). The Suzuki needles run the cleanest and strongest right off idle and are very manageable in power delivery. Once you get your jetting straight then you can fine tune your ride a little further with gearing and motor mods. GASGAS 200s are a little weak on the bottom but rev to the moon so the head squish mod and larger power valve cover are very effective and not too expensive but I would never put a heavier flywheel weight on a 200. Only put flywheel weights on bikes that have too much power or are prone to stall - neither is a problem for a properly jetted 200 gasser. For woods riding a 4/1 gear ratio (12/48 or 13/52) works well. A lower ratio of 12/50 would be better if you like climbing hills.`

 

[Rick]

Since the owner is new to the bike who knows what has been done to is.....by the pictures he has provided it looks like a 2k2 ignition has been installed. 2k3 was OEM set up for 99...if the motor is a 99 motor?

Did someone take a porting tool to the cylinder?

Is the squish correct?

Has the timing been advanced or retarded?

What jets are in the carb? I asked him in a PM to check the jets and post them. 12Brovo reached out to me when he picked up the bike......we exchanged numerous PM's back and forth to try and sort things out...someone referred 12Brovo to me, so I did what I could to provide info.

It sounds like a runner based upon 12Brovo's first ride or so.

gasser bring up valid points....

There is just too much unknown......just my .02

 

[12Bravo]

Since the owner is new to the bike who knows what has been done to is.....by the pictures he has provided it looks like a 2k2 ignition has been installed. 2k3 was OEM set up for 99...if the motor is a 99 motor?

Did someone take a porting tool to the cylinder?

Is the squish correct?

Has the timing been advanced or retarded?

What jets are in the carb? I asked him in a PM to check the jets and post them. 12Brovo reached out to me when he picked up the bike......we exchanged numerous PM's back and forth to try and sort things out...someone referred 12Brovo to me, so I did what I could to provide info.

It sounds like a runner based upon 12Brovo's first ride or so.

gasser bring up valid points....

There is just too much unknown......just my .02

I have to agree, I an new and I don't know enough about these bikes yet. What I do know is the motor is a 99 EC200, it is stamped on the side of the motor. What has been done to the internals, not a clue, haven't taken it apart yet.

The jetting, I forgot to look when I had the carb off and cleaning it. Will do that this week to see what it says.

How do I see if a porting tool has been used?
I will have to learn what the squish is?!
Will have to look up how to time this motor. I can time my Honda Rancher just fine, just did a valve adjustment. I am not familiar at all with 2 Stroke, I'm learning.

 

[12Bravo]

Let's look at the big picture. 1st a 200 gasser should not run in the way you describe so something is definitely wrong. My understanding of what you said is that the motor runs very poorly and weak at lower throttle settings then clears up very quickly to run strong. If that is the case you have a jetting problem (or something that affects your jetting). Gearing and flywheel weights can help modify a bike to your personal needs but it would be best if you get your jetting needs settled first. Start by looking at your oil. Does it have a flash point over 300 degrees Fahrenheit? If it does your slow riding may be loading the cylinder and pipe up with unburned oil causing the motor to load up until it revs fast enough to blow itself out. Keep your oil ratio the same but switch to an oil that has a flash point near or below 200F. You may want to find a big open field or dirt road where you can run the bike at high throttle for an extended time to blow the excess oil out of the pipe and silencer. Next I suggest you drop in the appropriate Suzuki needle (Jacobi is the guru on jetting). The Suzuki needles run the cleanest and strongest right off idle and are very manageable in power delivery. Once you get your jetting straight then you can fine tune your ride a little further with gearing and motor mods. GASGAS 200s are a little weak on the bottom but rev to the moon so the head squish mod and larger power valve cover are very effective and not too expensive but I would never put a heavier flywheel weight on a 200. Only put flywheel weights on bikes that have too much power or are prone to stall - neither is a problem for a properly jetted 200 gasser. For woods riding a 4/1 gear ratio (12/48 or 13/52) works well. A lower ratio of 12/50 would be better if you like climbing hills.`

With the 300F flash point, I didn't know that. This is why I post on here to LEARN, I know it can get frustrating for people that know all this stuff. For us that don't, the hours of searching through endless threads that may or may not have what we need is just as frustrating and annoying as asking a question to quickly.

I have some work to do to the bike, looks like I have a bad seal or o-ring behind the front sprocket. Plus I will pull the carb and see what jets I have and report back and see about finding the right one to use.

With the oil mix, what brands do you all use that is a low flash point? I am using Champion right now, but will change as needed. The Spooge that is coming out of the bike make sense with what you said about burn off. There is a lot of oil coming out of pipe!

 

[12Bravo]

Start by looking at your oil. Does it have a flash point over 300 degrees Fahrenheit? `

I just looked up the oil I am using. It has a flash point of 175f, I was surprised. Now I think I really do have a jetting issue, that low of a flash point and having this much spooge leads me this direction.