Dirt rider tests 2013 250xc
- Thread starter JCG61
- Start date
motorhead
Member
Dirt Rider continues to disappoint me. There are enough "moto" mags already,dont like the new small print,new larger size doesn't fit in my lunchbox,half page Gas Gas test's,too much mx bling. Keep forgetting to call and cancel subscription. The other day my son said "Hey Dad, dirt riders doin a 300 2stroke shootout, I cant wait to see how they stack up." To which I replied "Bet they pic the new Beta just because it's NEW,otherwise they would pick a ktm, Denison isn't a Gas Gas or Husky fan like Lewis was." New issue came yesterday=six page spread on how Beta is bike of the year...Shocker
Gonna make that call.
Gonna make that call.
Beta is a much better bike than my last 2010 six days gasser. I havent rode a 12 or 13 gasser but until they figure a way to shave 15 or 20 pounds they will be behind the game. I've had several gassers and I know they dontfeel heavy and they turn like nothing else but every time I ride one I cant help but think how much better it could be. I'm very happy with my beta 300, it is a better bike than a gasser and I am a gasgas fan.
twowheels
New member
I cancelled my subscription. The latest rag was nothing more than a big catalog.
The cover pic of the BETA is a joke. you can tell the mud was splattered on the bike rather than ridden in mud.
I have not rode a 13 so I can't say for sure. The build quality of the beta is much better than my 2010 gasser. I understand the 12 and 13 are a step above the 10's but they only trimmed a couple pounds. I loved my 2010 gasser in the woods and never really noticed the extra weight it was carrying, it was the best turning bike I've ever had. We will all just have to imagine how unbelievable the gasgas could be if they were able to get the weight down to where the competition is at.
I would have purchased a 2012 gasser if dealers in California could get them.
I don't agree that dropping 15-20 pounds off the gassers is the way to go. Much of the weight is stuff that guys will add on anyways to a KTM etc- like Heavier tubes, lights etc, etc..
It's pretty much a given that the real world riding weight of a 250-300 2t is going to be 250-260# full of fluids and armoured up.
When you see ads for a bike that's 20 # less than the competition, the first question one should ask is - What did they sacrifice to get the weight to that level? They had to have given up something, as all bikes share too many common, or similar parts that all weigh the same(or very close):
Tires
Tubes
Rims/hubs/axles/brakes
suspension
Carbs/filters
Exhaust
Handlebars/controls
Plastics
Seats
Wiring
The only areas that engineers can potentially really save weight(without using expensive unobtanium materials) is in the frame/engine & we all know how that's worked for KTM in the past.(blown up motors/broken steering heads). Either that or they have to scrimp on the items I listed above. Nothing comes for free.
IMO the GG's are much closer out of the box to a real world riding weight than a KTM (and possibly a Beta?). The biggest advantage I can see with the new Beta is that it may have a better e-start system, but only time will tell.
I only had to add handguards, Rad guards & a lic plate to my '12GG.
That extra weight helps keep the bike planted better in the chop and crap. That along with the tractable engine makes it hook up better than any 2t I've ever ridden.
IMO the new GG's have all the benefits & nimbleness of a 2t along with the tractability of a 4t. They still look better than the new Betas in my eyes as well.
It's pretty much a given that the real world riding weight of a 250-300 2t is going to be 250-260# full of fluids and armoured up.
When you see ads for a bike that's 20 # less than the competition, the first question one should ask is - What did they sacrifice to get the weight to that level? They had to have given up something, as all bikes share too many common, or similar parts that all weigh the same(or very close):
Tires
Tubes
Rims/hubs/axles/brakes
suspension
Carbs/filters
Exhaust
Handlebars/controls
Plastics
Seats
Wiring
The only areas that engineers can potentially really save weight(without using expensive unobtanium materials) is in the frame/engine & we all know how that's worked for KTM in the past.(blown up motors/broken steering heads). Either that or they have to scrimp on the items I listed above. Nothing comes for free.
IMO the GG's are much closer out of the box to a real world riding weight than a KTM (and possibly a Beta?). The biggest advantage I can see with the new Beta is that it may have a better e-start system, but only time will tell.
I only had to add handguards, Rad guards & a lic plate to my '12GG.
That extra weight helps keep the bike planted better in the chop and crap. That along with the tractable engine makes it hook up better than any 2t I've ever ridden.
IMO the new GG's have all the benefits & nimbleness of a 2t along with the tractability of a 4t. They still look better than the new Betas in my eyes as well.
At a race back in the fall, I unknowingly ran the last three 7-mile laps without water (hole in the radiator). Do that with a KTM and see what happens. 
I rode my neighbor's 300 Beta (non Race model). Not as stable at speed, even with a Scotts damper. Needs a bit of FWW. An Ex-GG Cali-A-Racer was in Arizona with his new Beta back in February for one of our racer. He like the Beta, but he said, and I quote, "Nothing turns like a Gas Gas." He remarked that it wasn't as stable at speed.
I rode my neighbor's 300 Beta (non Race model). Not as stable at speed, even with a Scotts damper. Needs a bit of FWW. An Ex-GG Cali-A-Racer was in Arizona with his new Beta back in February for one of our racer. He like the Beta, but he said, and I quote, "Nothing turns like a Gas Gas." He remarked that it wasn't as stable at speed.
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desertgasser300
Banned
At a race back in the fall, I unknowingly ran the last three 7-mile laps without water (hole in the radiator). Do that with a KTM and see what happens.
I rode my neighbor's 300 Beta (non Race model). Not as stable at speed, even with a Scotts damper. Needs a bit of FWW. An Ex-GG Cali-A-Racer was in Arizona with his new Beta back in February for one of our racer. He like the Beta, but he said, and I quote, "Nothing turns like a Gas Gas." He remarked that it wasn't as stable at speed.
Rick, who was that on the Beta 2T at campwood?
desertgasser300
Banned
I have to agree. I'm under the conclusion that that is what makes the Gassers so tractable and planted in the gnarly stuff.
Look at how well the 2012 and 13's are doing in Europe right now. Remember the article last year about the 12's. "... The off-road motorcycle world is heading straight for GasGas right now, so the company shouldn't move."
You can bet dollars to donuts that if GasGasUS invested in ad space the outcome would be more favorable. And as far as not buying a GasGas because you don't have a dealer in your state is a cop out. Az doesn't have a dealer, but there are new Gassers here.
The topic of weight keeps coming up...
I am fairly sure that the isde legal tires add about 5 pounds to the weight of the bike if you add both front/rear versus a michelin off-road tire. Bikes shipped to the magazines for tests should have lighter tires installed - ( e.g. michelin s-12 xc) so that comparisons to other bikes is "apples to apples". They should also be jetted....
From memory - I weighed a new michelin enduro comp 3 rear tire and a michelin s-12 rears a long while back - the enduro comp 3 was over 13 pounds and the s-12 was ~10 pounds.
jeff
I am fairly sure that the isde legal tires add about 5 pounds to the weight of the bike if you add both front/rear versus a michelin off-road tire. Bikes shipped to the magazines for tests should have lighter tires installed - ( e.g. michelin s-12 xc) so that comparisons to other bikes is "apples to apples". They should also be jetted....
From memory - I weighed a new michelin enduro comp 3 rear tire and a michelin s-12 rears a long while back - the enduro comp 3 was over 13 pounds and the s-12 was ~10 pounds.
jeff
Well,ummm, I'm just a country boy but that statement and conclusion doesn't make any sense.I'll stick with my gasser and if loses all its coolant it will still run.....just ask AZ Rick!
I guess you are a country boy. I should have known better than to chime in with real world experience of both brands. Good luck to you guys.
twowheels
New member
The swingarm hasn't changed since Columbus brought the first Gassers over, and in a world of thin-wall pressure die-casting the Spaniards have stuck with sand-cast. You can argue the durability point if you like, but there's no denying the weight difference.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Yeah I've never understood why everyone gets so hung up on the numbers..
desertgasser300
Banned
The 97' swingarms are smaller.
Stop being so elusive........LOL.And as country as they come. Grew up in Gilbert, AZ. Even had my own horses growing up. Raised our own beef, had geese, ducks, chickens. Learned how to drive a stick by plowing our fields at 10 yrs. old. So yeah, country!
Understand, it's going to be hard to argue a beta on a GasGas forum. Betas are beautiful bikes and it's cool to see something new, but again GasGas forum. I thought it was pretty easy going considering what would happen to you if this were on KTMtalk. No hard feelings you gotta ride what you like.
fletchman45
New member
I don't really think the Beta would be any better. Just different. A one page article is almost and insult. The bike deserves much much more then that. Gas Gas could be a bit lighter but does have quite a few xtras. Magizine could have done a better job, but was at least positive!
