I am a first time GG owner. Bought the 2013 250 xc racing version. Just spent two weeks riding in North Carolina, concluding with the GNCC race at Steele Creek.I love this bike! Its very stable at speed, turns great, and has excellent tractable power. I agree it does feel slightly heavy if you have to lift it onto the stand, but feels light and nimble on the trail. Can anyone tell me what the racing version weighs without fuel? I assume it must be lighter than the E-start version. The Beta looks great, but its not proven over time like the GG. Not sure if I would want to be one of the first year guinea pigs. I also have a big problem with the two gallon gas tank.Totally useless for off road.
Dirt rider tests 2013 250xc
- Thread starter JCG61
- Start date
I read the magazines to see what I can learn. Many times this is reading between the lines and making my own interpretations. What I dont get is a single page write up. The magazines complain the everyone on the internet is becoming a test rider but then they do only do a short one page writeup. I'm sarting to get better information from internet forum ride reports. I remember the days when a shoot out woud include dyno cures and lap times. I understand that the magazines cannot get bikes from the manufactures for long term tests but they need to adjust and do better than a one page ride report. I;l keep buying the magazines helpiing them survivenand hoping they can bet back to where they were,
GMP
Active member
I'm all for a few lbs. off but NOT at the expense of durability. Keep it in the ballpark but don't get into a pissing contest. That heavy motor is amazing in its tolerance for abuse. Perhaps vacuum die cast the cases like Ducati did in upgrading their 1100 motor but leave the cylinder. Keep the big rads. The subframe and inner fender could be simplified. Make the 2K-2 standard, and harnessing to a minimum. We already beat up on the Stealth, again. And yes, I think they could make a lighter swing arm just as strong in 2013.
I like the fact that when I drop the bike, it almost always gets picked up undamaged. Can't say that for a super light KTM, or even a Husky. Bent brackets, tweaked subframes, etc.,,plus they boil a lot easier. All that weight savings is not free, comes at a price, basic engineering trade off.
Drop a few lbs., but more important up the build consistency and quality control. For as good a reputation as GGs have for handling, they have a poor one for QC. This MUST change, or Beta and Sherco will walk away. I'm really hoping the new owners have a handle on this.
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I like the fact that when I drop the bike, it almost always gets picked up undamaged. Can't say that for a super light KTM, or even a Husky. Bent brackets, tweaked subframes, etc.,,plus they boil a lot easier. All that weight savings is not free, comes at a price, basic engineering trade off.
Drop a few lbs., but more important up the build consistency and quality control. For as good a reputation as GGs have for handling, they have a poor one for QC. This MUST change, or Beta and Sherco will walk away. I'm really hoping the new owners have a handle on this.
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Jakobi
Super Moderator
Not a truer word spoken.
I'll take it a step further and say that build consistency needs to also include meeting demand, and deadlines. How many times have we seen the bikes be delivered on spanish time. Pushed back a month here or there, waiting on parts, subsituted with various bits and pieces. One country gets this setup, another country gets that, and then people in between getting mixed matches of this and that.
I'm not even worried about what time in the year bikes arrive. It can be before or after everyone else releases their models, but what is required is a plan which is then implemented and met. X amount of bikes, which will meet this specification, and arrive between these dates.
desertgasser300
Banned
GMP
Active member
Plastic can get torn off any bike, most stock attachments are inadequate for tight technical riding, '12 GG being the worst! Look at some of the various frame brackets on very light bikes, paper thin. My friend with a newer KTM was complaining of this, stuff always bending on the bike compared to his older one.
A few lbs. means nothing to the average and even above average racer. Jeff Melik whipped the ECEA field last year on the overweight 300. It means the most in the spec sheet, sales brochure.
A few lbs. means nothing to the average and even above average racer. Jeff Melik whipped the ECEA field last year on the overweight 300. It means the most in the spec sheet, sales brochure.
Betas come with Michelin Enduro Comp 3's....
Jetster220
New member
I would agree that they need to work on some more QC during production for sure. Have had a couple small bolts fall off my '12 and had to get a pipe warrantied after I got it due to it being welded wrong and was hitting the air box. Gerald at Upstate Cycle and Clay took awesome care of me though and got a new one to me no problem. Love the bike though, it might be a bit heavier on a stand, but Im ok with that, doesnt feel like it on the trail, and I know that Im riding one of the toughest damn bikes there is.
I've raced and ridden GG's for 12 years, and just bought a new Beta 300RR in February. Is it a perfect bike? No, there isn't such a thing. For a first year effort, it is amazing. What a motor! Fit and finish are great and it is easy to work on. Broke my front fender in an icy slide into a 12" tree, but everything else has been trouble free. It's a blast to ride. All I have left to do is have Stillwell Performance revalve the front fork and install a stiffer set of springs. I'm going to run the shock with a stiffer spring for a while and see if I need a revalve. The back doesn't seem too bad at all. I'll consider a revalve when I need to change shock oil.
GMP hit it right on the head. GG has to get on top of their quality control and niggling design flaws or Beta, Sherco and Husqvarna will come in and clean up what KTM hasn't already locked up in terms of market share. Snapped off kickstarters and seats that overhang the plastic? What is going on with that? It isn't like GG doesn't have close ties between their engineering and actual riders. Get it right the first time. Beta sure did well here, the bike is easy to live with on the trail and in the garage. No hard feelings meant, I'd like to see GG shake off these issues and grow - it would be good for the sport!
GMP hit it right on the head. GG has to get on top of their quality control and niggling design flaws or Beta, Sherco and Husqvarna will come in and clean up what KTM hasn't already locked up in terms of market share. Snapped off kickstarters and seats that overhang the plastic? What is going on with that? It isn't like GG doesn't have close ties between their engineering and actual riders. Get it right the first time. Beta sure did well here, the bike is easy to live with on the trail and in the garage. No hard feelings meant, I'd like to see GG shake off these issues and grow - it would be good for the sport!
Well, I own both brands, and have ridden the 2011 GG models, so I feel qualified to share what I've seen, felt, fixed, ridden and crashed.
I do think that Beta's success with their four strokes built a great foundation for their 2T program. They are great bikes, I just rode a 350RR and it was sweet. I think Beta has some talented engineers over in Florence, building a four stroke motor from the ground up is not easy, and yet they offer a six month limited warranty on their bikes, that's impressive. I also liked that they are still a family owned company - how cool is that!
GG could narrow the gap to the new entrants and the dominant KTM XC's by 1) spec'ing hex headed fasteners all over, 2) get a seat that fits with the plastic, and 3) dropping the cast swingarm and engine cases for die cast versions. A new larger oil filter would be nice to engineer in with the case changes. The new frame and plastic have major eye appeal, which like it or not, influences sales. (Hint to Girona, dunk the white plastic, blood red looks hot!) Send the bikes out with jetting that works around sea level with some spare jets for altitude and these changes would be huge steps toward being a market leader. They are frustratingly close. Perhaps the new owners will inject capital for these projects. A bored and stroked 125 motor, say 150cc would be a sales booster against Husky and KTM's and get younger riders on the brand sooner.
My thoughts, FWIW.
I do think that Beta's success with their four strokes built a great foundation for their 2T program. They are great bikes, I just rode a 350RR and it was sweet. I think Beta has some talented engineers over in Florence, building a four stroke motor from the ground up is not easy, and yet they offer a six month limited warranty on their bikes, that's impressive. I also liked that they are still a family owned company - how cool is that!
GG could narrow the gap to the new entrants and the dominant KTM XC's by 1) spec'ing hex headed fasteners all over, 2) get a seat that fits with the plastic, and 3) dropping the cast swingarm and engine cases for die cast versions. A new larger oil filter would be nice to engineer in with the case changes. The new frame and plastic have major eye appeal, which like it or not, influences sales. (Hint to Girona, dunk the white plastic, blood red looks hot!) Send the bikes out with jetting that works around sea level with some spare jets for altitude and these changes would be huge steps toward being a market leader. They are frustratingly close. Perhaps the new owners will inject capital for these projects. A bored and stroked 125 motor, say 150cc would be a sales booster against Husky and KTM's and get younger riders on the brand sooner.
My thoughts, FWIW.
Oh, while I'm busy getting a supplier lined up to supply die cast case halves (GG does their own machining in house on the sand casting, BTW), I'd design a new shift shaft with a spline pattern that mimics... pick your own Japanese brand here, so shifters would cross reference.
What the heck, one more change... copy a Honda clutch so aftermarket parts from the outer basket and gear, inner basket and clutch steels and fiber plates can all be dropped in. If it's OK to use a Honda connecting rod, air filter and brakes all these years, then copy something that gets riders instant access to a whole aftermarket industry on a wear item. Bingo, instant aftermarket support for clutch parts. Minimal labor to engineer these new changes, which is good considering the current Spanish/Euro economic situation. Major improvements with minimal up front costs.
Clay, is it Spanish pride that keeps them from seeing this at the factory?
What the heck, one more change... copy a Honda clutch so aftermarket parts from the outer basket and gear, inner basket and clutch steels and fiber plates can all be dropped in. If it's OK to use a Honda connecting rod, air filter and brakes all these years, then copy something that gets riders instant access to a whole aftermarket industry on a wear item. Bingo, instant aftermarket support for clutch parts. Minimal labor to engineer these new changes, which is good considering the current Spanish/Euro economic situation. Major improvements with minimal up front costs.
Clay, is it Spanish pride that keeps them from seeing this at the factory?
nambo-trev
New member
I don't think that is the case at all and I appreciate his opinion as much as the next. I love my gasser but if someone else ie. beta sherco tm etc. can out do them in performance, quality and all around good packaging then I'm all for it! Not to say that beta is there yet but I really like hearing from people that own a gasser and another brand to here there views and I can take it or leave it as I please! I'm about searching for the bike with the best performance and packaging and quality, I'm not caught up with supporting a specific brand I "should be loyal to" if they don't want to keep pace with other manufacturers. Just my 2 cents
Clay
Banned
To be fair to the Dirt Rider guys......They flew in to Nashville and we drove 7 hours to the farm in GA because it had rained for 6 straight days in middle TN. They rode/tested three bikes in two days so I don't think they really had the time to do a longer article. They now have a 300 that they are using on in a 300cc 2T shootout so I expect there will more about each brand in the article about the shootout.
Clay
Banned
What the heck, one more change... copy a Honda clutch so aftermarket parts from the outer basket and gear, inner basket and clutch steels and fiber plates can all be dropped in. If it's OK to use a Honda connecting rod, air filter and brakes all these years, then copy something that gets riders instant access to a whole aftermarket industry on a wear item. Bingo, instant aftermarket support for clutch parts. Minimal labor to engineer these new changes, which is good considering the current Spanish/Euro economic situation. Major improvements with minimal up front costs.
Clay, is it Spanish pride that keeps them from seeing this at the factory?[/QUOTE]
I think its a couple of things. No one likes to admit they "copied" something from another brand even though it sometimes makes sense. The biggest issue is cash flow. The past few years have been tough on GG. The banks that owned 88% would not put any cash in the business. The employees that I have talked to are excited about the new guys who bought the banks out and who are expected to put some money into the company.
Clay, is it Spanish pride that keeps them from seeing this at the factory?[/QUOTE]
I think its a couple of things. No one likes to admit they "copied" something from another brand even though it sometimes makes sense. The biggest issue is cash flow. The past few years have been tough on GG. The banks that owned 88% would not put any cash in the business. The employees that I have talked to are excited about the new guys who bought the banks out and who are expected to put some money into the company.
arminhammer
New member
As an owner of 11 gasgas 250 and now a 13 beta 300rr racing, with all due respect you would be a fool not to buy it. Just my 2 cents.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
All good points by hawkeye. The only other thing to go with it would be having the bikes produced on time and ready for distribution when people are ready to buy.
But really, we can sit here and pick any bike of any brand to bits. They all have their issues in one form or another. I'm with Trev on it all. I just want a good bike thats nice to ride and makes me happy. Don't care what colour it is.
But really, we can sit here and pick any bike of any brand to bits. They all have their issues in one form or another. I'm with Trev on it all. I just want a good bike thats nice to ride and makes me happy. Don't care what colour it is.
coopernicus
Platinum Level Site Supporter
Okay, I'll say it since it is conveniently forgotten by the press and others: Beta is not new to 2T dirt bikes and I'm not talking trials. I have a 1979 Beta CR 500 (really a 420 or so). They have a lot of experience with 2T off roaders so it should not be a surprise they work well as they have been doing it for roughly 35 years. Please keep coming with substantive comparisons of the GG to any bike as I enjoy riding any bike in the woods and I like to hear all opinions no matter if someone believes I am a fool for not thinking like him. It really is okay that we all don't think alike!
fletchman45
New member
Enough of the Beta Hoorah. Yea it's nice/ I like it. But didn't the guy who said to buy it not even ride a current generation Gas Gas yet???? Even a B rider versus a C rider versus and A rider may have different opinions on whether the Beta is better then a Gasser or a Gasser better then a Beta. They are both sexy and have lots of eye candy!! The Gasser needs a slight diet but as soon as this snow melts I will let you know if that extra weight helps the bike track nice and not deflect. Do not believe everything you read in a magazine. And please Beta for next year throw the 2.0 Gallon tanks in the dumpster and increase capacity to 2.7 to 3.2 gallons!!!
