EC 300 2018 starter problem

[eralha]

Good Morning,

Last Sunday the starter of my gasgas ec 300 stopped working, it worked without turning the engine. I dismounted the two covers, the bendix and the ignition to check and it was the bendix that was stuck and did not act.
After lubricating everything I set everything to see if it was ok, I mount it without putting the joints and now the starter does not turn the engine. The battery has 13V is still the original battery.
I give here a video of what it does now, i just orderer a new batery, should i try and make the wire mods?

I need to say that my bike has 70h now that starter allways worked, not 100% but worked when i needed cold and hot.

video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Aq0Qx6sqeizHgoYY_RQzuOPAHPLmEg

Thanks in advance

 

[RudolfHucker]

If the starter is spinning and the bendix is not engaging, check the bendix. KTM units used to fail as the gears started to spin on the shaft and you had to replace the bendix. That could have happened to yours if the bendix has siezed up.

The beefed up battery leads need to be done anyway as the cable thickness is just not enough to pass the current the starter needs to spin at full speed.

If the battery voltage does not drop off when the starter is spinning then I doubt that the battery is at fault.

 

[eralha]

Hi,

I tested it with another battery, 11A 230cca, it just did the cliking sound, the theet on the bendix seems good, it turns as it should to actuate, i have the impression that it is getting stuck after it engages.

thks.

 

[RudolfHucker]

When the bendix gear was slipping on my KTM, you couldn't turn the gear on the shaft by hand. It needed the torque from the starter motor to cause it. I had to mark the shaft and gear to see that it was slipping.

 

[eralha]

Hi,

Good tip i will mark the bendix to see if it is slipping, will give feedback here.

thanks

 

[eralha]

Hi,

Checked The Bendix and its good, im thinking about The Starter now.

 

[Doc Brown]

In the video you never pushed the starter button longer than half a second. What happens if you press it and keep it pressed? Do you hear a whining noise?

Did you check the voltage of your battery when fully loaded? If yes, what was the value? Did it ever work fine? When did it stop working? How many operating hours has the bike?
What was the ambient temperature when the starter failed?

 

[eralha]

In the video you never pushed the starter button longer than half a second. What happens if you press it and keep it pressed? Do you hear a whining noise?

Did you check the voltage of your battery when fully loaded? If yes, what was the value? Did it ever work fine? When did it stop working? How many operating hours has the bike?
What was the ambient temperature when the starter failed?

Hi,

Yes it does the whining sound, it failed one ride, i didnt measure the battery voltage on load.

The starter never worked 100%, it was getting worse every ride to put the bike to start, i will order a new starter motor, prety sure that its the problem.

thanks.

 

[RudolfHucker]

Fit the 2019 starter wiring before you order a new motor. It could save you a big chunk of cash. Speak to your dealer as the upgrade was retro fitted to 2018 bikes. You may get the parts at a reduced price.

 

[Neil E.]

The bendix has to "spin up" quickly so the flyweights force the gears to engage. This is where the improved wiring and better battery come in.

A bike that cranks OK but does not start requires the better CDI. The bad ones won't spark due to the voltage sag from cranking. They do start fine with the kickstarter.

 

[Doc Brown]

Hi,

Yes it does the whining sound, it failed one ride, i didnt measure the battery voltage on load.

The starter never worked 100%, it was getting worse every ride to put the bike to start, i will order a new starter motor, prety sure that its the problem.

thanks.

Mh... I'd check the voltage before buying a new starter. I really doubt that it is a faulty starter. A stronger battery doesnt help. I tried a booster on mine, its so powerful that you can start a Tiger tank after 60 years easily but my Gasser didnt start with it. I added new, thicker cables, got an updated CDI, added an additional ground cable between battery and starter, full program. Also greased the gears, nothing helped.
Suddenly one day it worked, no clue why.

I run a weaker Shido battery in my 2019 and it starts fine. I tried the stronger 2019 battery in my 2018 it still hesitates before it starts when cold... its a bit of a mystery.

Hope you get it sorted, keep my fingers crossed!

 

[eralha]

Mh... I'd check the voltage before buying a new starter. I really doubt that it is a faulty starter. A stronger battery doesnt help. I tried a booster on mine, its so powerful that you can start a Tiger tank after 60 years easily but my Gasser didnt start with it. I added new, thicker cables, got an updated CDI, added an additional ground cable between battery and starter, full program. Also greased the gears, nothing helped.
Suddenly one day it worked, no clue why.

I run a weaker Shido battery in my 2019 and it starts fine. I tried the stronger 2019 battery in my 2018 it still hesitates before it starts when cold... its a bit of a mystery.

Hope you get it sorted, keep my fingers crossed!

I didn't checked the voltage, but now with the new cables, it does the whining sound and it crack the motor for like a 1/4 turn.

 

[Doc Brown]

I didn't checked the voltage, but now with the new cables, it does the whining sound and it crack the motor for like a 1/4 turn.

Yes, it was same with mine. Will it crank and start when the engine is warm?

 

[eralha]

Yes, it was same with mine. Will it crank and start when the engine is warm?

No, works the same when warm.

 

[RudolfHucker]

Have you taken the starter motor apart at any time?

I only ask as a lot of riders took KTM starters apart and then got the magnet polarity back to front and robbed the motor of most of its power. Very easy to do with that particular motor.

It could be the motor brushes that are either worn or sticking in their guides and not making good contact with the commutator. Worth a check but make sure that you mark up the casing for proper orientation on assembly.

 

[Doc Brown]

No, works the same when warm.

Damned! Do you have a riding mate whith whom you could interchange the starter motor for testing?

 

[eralha]

Have you taken the starter motor apart at any time?

I only ask as a lot of riders took KTM starters apart and then got the magnet polarity back to front and robbed the motor of most of its power. Very easy to do with that particular motor.

It could be the motor brushes that are either worn or sticking in their guides and not making good contact with the commutator. Worth a check but make sure that you mark up the casing for proper orientation on assembly.

Thanks for the tips, will try that and give feedback.

Cheers.

 

[RudolfHucker]

I haven't touched my starter yet as the bike is brand new so I don't know if there are referb kits available for brushes etc. They will be out there somewhere.

Jeff Slavens sells some kits for the KTM units and the parts may well be similar or the same. A lot of bikes have also used Yamaha oem starters and they have kits available.

 

[Doc Brown]

Not only the starter motor. I used his carb, cdi, stator, starter relay, starter etc to find the problem my bike had.

Maybe riding mate is the wrong term, he is my best friend and we share a garage, so whenver spannering/riding we do it togehter.

The left is his, the right is mine...

 

[eralha]

Not only the starter motor. I used his carb, cdi, stator, starter relay, starter etc to find the problem my bike had.

Maybe riding mate is the wrong term, he is my best friend and we share a garage, so whenver spannering/riding we do it togehter.

The left is his, the right is mine...

What was the problem with yours Doc?