EC200 Clutch - or lack of

[Muzungu]

At randomw times the clucth control on my 2011 200 dissappears - the clutch lever can be pulled right back to the bars and still dragging - this is rather unsettling on slow twisties as assists in making bike drive into corners it shouldnt! And then a few seconds later is fine.

I can find no problem with it, bleeding is fine as are fluids.

Is this a common problem?

M

 

[GGEvo]

Has this fault on my '10 EC300. My clutch was disengaging after about 3-5 secs. Dealer advised there was a fault with the seal in the master cylinder. Easy fix under warranty but frustrating all the same.

 

[noobi]

If you have no free play in the lever it can result in inconsistent engagement points with the lever. Free play=good.
Otherwise it could be the seal

 

[stainlesscycle]

either master or slave has a seal problem. both are cheap and relatively easy to rebuild.

 

[mrkartoom]

I have almost the exact same problem on my less than 1-hour old clutch. When cold the clutch disengages against my fingers on the grip, then after a minute I have to pull it to the bar to get it to disengage. I have torn the slave apart and bled it 2x. Going into the master cylinder is next on my list. I am hoping I will see something in there to indicate the problem (imperfection in seals, scored cylinder wall from leftover machining debris, etc.). Hopefully this is my problem and I can get it sorted.

I noticed my problem only after removing the two rear bolts on the case guard/slave, but I think that was merely coincidental and the problem was there from the start. I've only ridden the bike one good time and may just not have noticed it. However, this may explain the couple times I stalled it in slow corners. I remember being a bit surprised that I stalled it each time.

 

[GGEvo]

Must admit my problem started and took me a while to notice it was a problem, just thought it was me getting used to a hydraulic clutch. However, it gradually got worse until one ride it became unrideable - just kept disengaging and would re-engage after a few pumps of lever.

As mentioned, the dealer knew exactly what the problem was. Said they had a few returned and thought it was a bad batch of seals in master cylinder. Has been working faultlessly since this was replaced.

 

[mrkartoom]

Must admit my problem started and took me a while to notice it was a problem, just thought it was me getting used to a hydraulic clutch. However, it gradually got worse until one ride it became unrideable - just kept disengaging and would re-engage after a few pumps of lever.

As mentioned, the dealer knew exactly what the problem was. Said they had a few returned and thought it was a bad batch of seals in master cylinder. Has been working faultlessly since this was replaced.

You have a 2010 and we have 2011's. Odd if they would still be shipping bad seals, but I hope this is the problem as that would be a simple fix.

 

[lankydoug]

If it is slowly disengaging and you're not losing fluid it just about has to be the clutch master cylinder internally leaking pressure. New seals should fix it unless there is a problem with the bore.

 

[mrkartoom]

I'm definitely not leaking any fluid and my slave looks perfect. I'm going to pull the master apart today and see. I wanted to do some more jetting and test riding before I tore into the clutch again, but it's rain rain rain for days on end here now so I might as well tear into it. I'll report back on what I find.

 

[mrkartoom]

Okay I took mine apart and here's what's in there.

I don't really see anything obvious with the seals, but other than nicks or tears not sure what I'm looking for.

There is a washboard-like surface effect on the interior of the cylinder bore, which I assumed would be smooth. Anyone know if this is normal?

Finally the machining in the reservoir. This looks pretty sloppy here. The bore of one hole overlaps the other and actually there are vertical slits open on both sides of the wall in between, which is <paper thin and bent over as you can see. Tiny shreds of hair-like machining strands left dangling off the bores. hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Muzungu]

Many thanks for the feedback - am please (?) it is not just me! Dealer seemed a biy vague yesterday so now have a way forward.

M

 

[mrkartoom]

I may have found more sloppy machining. The hole in the cylinder bore towards the cable is way off center. Outside looking in the hole is centered, but looking down the bore it is way off. This means the bore is crooked. I'm not sure the piston travels that far down the cylinder, but the tip hits the side of the hole before it passes through and gets knocked off line. The hole looks like it is sized to allow this if aligned right, but I'm thinking the adjuster would have to be all the way in to drive the piston that far. Here's a pic. Any thoughts?

 

[thumperrider1]

I would get your dealer to pull the fluid out of one at the shop and take a look in and see what the machining looks like.

 

[mrkartoom]

Looks like he's order me a new one based on what I've found already. He does have some DOT-type units in stock, so it may be worth having a look at one of those for comparison.

 

[GMP]

Never saw that one, but I never looked at that angle either. Everything else looks normal. Bad batch of masters mabye? They typically last for years before rebuilds. Put the lever on, move it, and see where the end of the pin is at the end of lever travel.

 

[mrkartoom]

Never saw that one, but I never looked at that angle either. Everything else looks normal. Bad batch of masters mabye? They typically last for years before rebuilds. Put the lever on, move it, and see where the end of the pin is at the end of lever travel.

Doing that it looked like the piston traveled to about where it is in the photo - just at the hole but not into it. That was with the lever to the bar and adjuster all the way out. I was just holding things together on the bar, so I need to bolt it up good and test this again.

 

[Muzungu]

Over thw weekend I took the master cylinder apart - found that the little bleed hole in the bottom was partly blocked with what appeared to be aluminium particles. No idea where these would have come from. Now the clutch works fine.

GG QA?

M

 

[mrkartoom]

Over thw weekend I took the master cylinder apart - found that the little bleed hole in the bottom was partly blocked with what appeared to be aluminium particles. No idea where these would have come from. Now the clutch works fine.

GG QA?

M

This is not the first I have heard of machining bits left inside. My dealer had a clutch come through that they scored the cylinder bore and similar symptoms to mine.

Update on my problem clutch: dealer shipped me a new master cylinder. Fixed.

 

[twowheels]

Did anyone here do their own replacement of the plunger and seals? How easy was it to get the lip seal to re-engage the master cylinder bore on the way back in?

 

[mrkartoom]

When I pulled the replacement unit apart to inspect the bore prior to install it went back in and sealed without any fuss, so from my experience I'd say pretty easy. Same experience with the original unit, although it had other sealing issues.