EC200R vs EC250R (2012 model)

[Jakobi]

Well I've mentioned this in just about every other thread now so I thought it was about time I gave them a thread of their own.

At this point in time I'm looking at riding something a bit different to my 2010 300R so am considering the 200R. I'm also going to be keeping the 300 in the short term so will truly have the best of both worlds.

Just a few quick questions RE the 200. Does it run the same powervalve setup or something different? From those with experience will it feel underpowered? I'm looking for a soft bottom end with a nice mid/top end. Something I really need to keep busy on and be rewarded by. How will maintenance intervals vary between the two bikes? Top and bottom end?

I can get the 200R at a really nice price, the 250R is close to $1000aud more.

Whats everyones opinions? My riding is quite varied between tight single with some transport sections (fire roads) which I don't mind putting around on. I have owned a 250F which will do everything I have asked, the power is just a bit boring.

 

[noobi]

Having ridden and lived with 250s and owning a 200.
It is soft-ish off the bottom and rips in the power band, but you need to ride more aggressively to get the best of the bike, it will reward you though. I did a top end at 80 hours, everything was still in spec.
A friend of mine took a 2010 200 to a NZ 0-200cc national enduro title, and hes a pretty big guy. Only mods were a revalve and a 2k2 flywheel.

The 200 runs exactly the same PV set up as the 250/300.
I dont think much has changed between engines as far as the 07 and the 12 are concerned, you might get a 36mm AS2.

 

[swazi_matt]

Having ridden and lived with 250s and owning a 200.
It is soft-ish off the bottom and rips in the power band, but you need to ride more aggressively to get the best of the bike, it will reward you though. I did a top end at 80 hours, everything was still in spec.
A friend of mine took a 2010 200 to a NZ 0-200cc national enduro title, and hes a pretty big guy. Only mods were a revalve and a 2k2 flywheel.

The 200 runs exactly the same PV set up as the 250/300.
I dont think much has changed between engines as far as the 07 and the 12 are concerned, you might get a 36mm AS2.

Is that teh same guy that got a 10th at the Roof of Africa on a GG300?

 

[noobi]

Is that teh same guy that got a 10th at the Roof of Africa on a GG300?

Yea, Mitchell Nield

 

[Jakobi]

Having ridden and lived with 250s and owning a 200.
It is soft-ish off the bottom and rips in the power band, but you need to ride more aggressively to get the best of the bike, it will reward you though. I did a top end at 80 hours, everything was still in spec.
A friend of mine took a 2010 200 to a NZ 0-200cc national enduro title, and hes a pretty big guy. Only mods were a revalve and a 2k2 flywheel.

The 200 runs exactly the same PV set up as the 250/300.
I dont think much has changed between engines as far as the 07 and the 12 are concerned, you might get a 36mm AS2.

Thanks Noobi..

I'm hardly a big guy. At 29 years old I only weigh in at 75kg which is the heaviest I've ever been. Old age kickin in! Haha!

I also enjoy riding aggressively which is why I'm considering the down size. The 300 is a great bike and wonderful motor but too much for most of the riding I do. Looking for something I can swing between the trees on the pipe a bit more without having to worry about over shooting when the band kicks in. I can ride the 300 like this but it takes alot of finess and hard work.

Which carb would you recommend if given a choice? I like that the PV is the same. I'm planning on pulling the head and jug right off the bat and matching the ports and bringing the squish down. What measurements am I looking at here? Normal 1.3-1.4mm?

Thanks again.

 

[noobi]

Thanks Noobi..

I'm hardly a big guy. At 29 years old I only weigh in at 75kg which is the heaviest I've ever been. Old age kickin in! Haha!

I also enjoy riding aggressively which is why I'm considering the down size. The 300 is a great bike and wonderful motor but too much for most of the riding I do. Looking for something I can swing between the trees on the pipe a bit more without having to worry about over shooting when the band kicks in. I can ride the 300 like this but it takes alot of finess and hard work.

Which carb would you recommend if given a choice? I like that the PV is the same. I'm planning on pulling the head and jug right off the bat and matching the ports and bringing the squish down. What measurements am I looking at here? Normal 1.3-1.4mm?

Thanks again.

Well you've got 10 years and 10kg on me....haha Which is after I put on 10kg after I broke my arm... haha.

Anyway.
I'm pretty sure my 07 has the 38mm carb, with the screw top, and its jetted really fat compared to the bigger bores, 180/50 I think and a rich needle on a rich clip.
I lowered the squish to 1.7-1.8 using gaskets, ports seemed about right. You could probably go tighter, as a reference I run my 125 at 0.8mm.
I can either ride in the power band in 2nd between the trees, or out of the band in 3rd with 13:50 sprockets. I barely ever get in trouble from having too much power, take that for what its worth. When the band comes on the bike just becomes super responsive, not as though it just got an extra 10hp and wants to rip your head off any chance it gets. It really is easy to ride in the power band.

No worries

 

[wence]

Old age mate?
Try another ten years and then ell me you're 75 kilos.
I was 65 for years, then 75 now at 39(nearly 40) , I am 83.
All muscle though( at least thats what I tell everyone,lol)
Cheers Mark

 

[Jakobi]

Hahah Mark! I'll get older and fatter yet! Its a work in progress!

I'm liking what I'm hearing Noobi. I think the 200 is the bike for me. Would love to confirm some optimum squish and compression figures from some in the know. It seems the 200 has a bigger 'unknown factor' than the 250/300 and this is about the only fault i can pick at the moment.

I personally haven't found myself in a really bad situation with the 300 due to the power. Its just that I can't keep it in the meat of it long enough to feel like i'm getting the most of it.. Torque torque snap low.. I want something I can clutch out of a corner and hold open for a few seconds before closing it down and doing it all again. I think by the sounds of it the 200 is what I'm looking for.

 

[GMP]

You can ride the 250 either way, with the right gearing and proper jetting. Lug it around in the greasy stuff to maintain traction, on the pipe between the trees in the good dirt. A bit less down low than a 300 and more than a 200, with plenty of big mid to top power. I'm a lot older than you guys and I prefer it!

 

[Jakobi]

You can ride the 250 either way, with the right gearing and proper jetting. Lug it around in the greasy stuff to maintain traction, on the pipe between the trees in the good dirt. A bit less down low than a 300 and more than a 200, with plenty of big mid to top power. I'm a lot older than you guys and I prefer it!

This is exactly how I ride the 300 though, and considering I'll be keeping it I'm wondering if the 250 will be too similar. If I was selling the 300 it would be an easy choice to get the 250.

..It somewhat sounds like I've answered the question myself

 

[john01]

I really think you should get the 200! You have the 300 and everybody says the 250 is a little less than a 300 so you won't see a big change in how you ride the two so you gotta get the 200. I need somebody to get a 200 and write all about it so I now which one to get . I too have a 300 and want a 2012 just keep gong back and forth.... 200 or 250 and that sir is the question.

 

[bchatt]

This is exactly how I ride the 300 though, and considering I'll be keeping it I'm wondering if the 250 will be too similar. If I was selling the 300 it would be an easy choice to get the 250.

..It somewhat sounds like I've answered the question myself

If you get a 250, you won't need a 200 or a 300! I love my 250, it's like having 2 bikes in 1. Good low down torque and totally rips when on the pipe. Personally, I don't want linear power - I want to get my arms pulled off every time I hit the pipe! The 250 is pure 2 stroke. Yeah ha!!

 

[lonetree]

hi.
I've got a 300 and a 250. I really like the 250, its a different beast to the 300, heaps snappier, but with more controlable power. feels heaps lighter to ride, easier to throw around. and i find im actually faster on the 250 than the 300, you can get on the pipe a bit earlier and hold it for longer... heaps of fun and it sounds like your a pro when ya ride it..
i think a 200 would be great, if it had a smaller frame setup, like a 125 should be. not sure if a full sized ec frame with a 200 would be quite, well "powerful" enough? im guessing it would be a bit like riding a 250f? perhaps faster but more fun? hmmm.
Have you ridden a ec250 yet jake?

 

[noobi]

i think a 200 would be great, if it had a smaller frame setup, like a 125 should be. not sure if a full sized ec frame with a 200 would be quite, well "powerful" enough? im guessing it would be a bit like riding a 250f? perhaps faster but more fun? hmmm.

GG only has one size frame, a few different frame cradles though.
The 200 is more powerful than an uncorked wr250f, which is what the gasser 250f is. It is more like a hotted up mx 250f. Only time it needs more is when you fall out of the powerband riding up a really steep hill.

Jake, considered getting a 250 top end ? and having a 200, then you would almost have the set..

 

[lonetree]

GG only has one size frame, a few different frame cradles though.

Thats the problem, if GG made a proper sized 125/200 frame, id get one for sure....

 

[Jakobi]

I received word from SOLO today.

Hi Jakobi
Just to let you know all the 250R have been sold and we do not have a date if and when we will get any more.
the other big problem we have is still no date on the 200R.
We have the 300R, 300E and 250E arriving next week, the 250F will arrive at the end of March with the sold out 250R and no news on the 200R.

I know you have been waiting on a 200 so I thought I would keep you up dated.

John

Great news for Gas Gas Australia, but not so great for me at the moment.

I have only ridden KTM 250's. Never sampled a GG but imagine they would be somewhat similar. I had considered getting a 250 barrel and head and doing the conversion on my bike which is what I might do when its time for the next top end if I can't get a 2012 model.

Lonetree: I think everything you said about the 250 would apply with the 200 but even more so. Even faster to rev, and be able to hold it on even longer. I don't think the frame size will be that much of a negative. The 200 should be able to pull it and me around effortlessly. It may suffer the same fete as the 250F in that anything over 80km/h starts to be considered ringing the neck out of the poor little thing, but I'm not all that into riding wide open trail anyway. Most of my terrain 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear flowing, with some occassional 1st gear tech sections. Thats running 13/50 on the 300.

With my yamaha 250F (2004), even to this day its the suspension and somewhat aggricultural feel that holds the bike back. Between the trees the engine has more than enough power to get the job done, and done quickly. Its just not overly exciting, so something with a bit of snap should fix that up.

The coins are stacked and ready. Now its just waiting to see if they can land me one

 

[singletracker]

I have only ridden KTM 250's. Never sampled a GG but imagine they would be somewhat similar.

I just sold a well setup and tuned 2009 250xcw, and I have a 2011 250 Race. I rode them back to back, and they feel completely different to me. The Gas Gas is racier, and revs up quicker IMO. The KTM had an SX head, PC Platinum 2 pipe and PC spark arrestor and 13/52 gears. The Gas Gas is stock except for jetting, and the gearing is 13/48.

I'm not knocking KTM, because the 09 was one of the best bikes that I ever owned, but the Gas Gas really inspires confidence and really fits me well.

 

[Jakobi]

I have only ridden KTM 250's. Never sampled a GG but imagine they would be somewhat similar.

I just sold a well setup and tuned 2009 250xcw, and I have a 2011 250 Race. I rode them back to back, and they feel completely different to me. The Gas Gas is racier, and revs up quicker IMO. The KTM had an SX head, PC Platinum 2 pipe and PC spark arrestor and 13/52 gears. The Gas Gas is stock except for jetting, and the gearing is 13/48.

I'm not knocking KTM, because the 09 was one of the best bikes that I ever owned, but the Gas Gas really inspires confidence and really fits me well.

You'd imagine the smaller capacity 200 would follow the same trend in that it would rev even faster and feel more racier.. This is what I'm looking for! Will have to do a nice report if I'm fortunate enough to get one.

If not, whats the best route for sourcing a 250 top end? New/2nd hand?

 

[Todd5774]

For sourcing a 250 top end then eBay worldwide is a good bet, I bought mine from the USA and then 2 weeks after that I saw one on eBay uk for half the price!

Something else to consider is buying a 200 ktm engine and adapting your frame to make it fit.... Should only be a case of making new engine mounts maybe a machining/spacing the swing arm to fit?

 

[Jakobi]

For sourcing a 250 top end then eBay worldwide is a good bet, I bought mine from the USA and then 2 weeks after that I saw one on eBay uk for half the price!

Something else to consider is buying a 200 ktm engine and adapting your frame to make it fit.... Should only be a case of making new engine mounts maybe a machining/spacing the swing arm to fit?

I'm not all that keen to go taking on any mega missions. A second hand jug would be alright but then might need some work to be brought up to scratch. I'm not really looking at doing things by halves

In all honesty if SOLO can't get a 200R in for me I'll probably see out another year on the 300. Might throw some coins at the XR6T and chase a few KW there instead. I don't have a top end due on the 300 for a few more hours yet.