Fairly new battery gets drained quickly?

[Crankin04]

Hey All,

I just bought a Parts Unlimited Motorcycle Battery for my 04' GG 450 back in April and it was like a $60 for it new so it was nothing special. I keep it on a
2 amp trickle charger after every ride to keep it fresh.

The problem is that when I go to ride I can get it to start great as the battery is like completely charged and ready to go, but as I'm riding if I stop and take a break for 10 minutes or so, it will start to drain and drain as I'm cranking. Last ride I had to jump start it going down hill twice!

Why would this battery be draining like that? Now whenver I go to charge it, it will charge then as I'm starting will die and can't get it to start again. Is it really just THAT CHEAP of a battery? Or do I have some electrical issue going on somewhere causing it to do this?

I have the technoresearch software and it shows no trouble codes for electronics that I can see.

Thanks for all your help!

Crankin04

 

[iancp5]

If you're not cranking much either the battery is bad or your charging circuit is bad. You would expect about 14.5V across the terminals at a few revs (3K - 5K rpm). If it's less than 13.5 it wont charge properly and if it's more than ~15.5 it will probably damage the battery.

Those are typical voltages for most 12V systems.

 

[Crankin04]

If you're not cranking much either the battery is bad or your charging circuit is bad. You would expect about 14.5V across the terminals at a few revs (3K - 5K rpm). If it's less than 13.5 it wont charge properly and if it's more than ~15.5 it will probably damage the battery.

Those are typical voltages for most 12V systems.

hmmm. Would leaving it on a 2amp trickle charge on all day and night until my next ride, make the volts go passed 15.5 and damage my battery? That could be the only thing I can think of as my problem unless my charging circuit is bad.

How would I tell if my circuit is bad? If you don't think that's the case, should I get a new battery and leave it off the trickle charger UNTIL the night before I ride the next day?

Usually at full charge its at around 13.4 volts.

Thanks again,

Crankin04

 

[Fred1956]

hmmm. Would leaving it on a 2amp trickle charge on all day and night until my next ride, make the volts go passed 15.5 and damage my battery? That could be the only thing I can think of as my problem unless my charging circuit is bad.

How would I tell if my circuit is bad? If you don't think that's the case, should I get a new battery and leave it off the trickle charger UNTIL the night before I ride the next day?

Usually at full charge its at around 13.4 volts.

Thanks again,

Crankin04

Simple test--With bike running, hook voltmeter leads to battery and read voltage, most charging systems will read @13.6-14.8 when working right. If higher -battery damage will occur & is usually caused by bad rectifier/grounded stator. If lower then no charging of battery & subsequent low battery volts, normally caused by open in circuit, or bad stator.
2A charger shouldn't damage battery but you're better off with a 'smart' charger that maintains rather than charges at any amp fulltime. Hope this helps

 

[wence]

Buy a turntech 5ah battery and don't trickle charge it as you won't need to.At least you will know it is not a battery problem then.
Cheers Mark

 

[iancp5]

A 2A charge is quite a decent rate for a small battery, more of a steady stream than a trickle. Whether it does any harm or not depends on how good the charger is. I keep mine on a batter conditioner which tests the battery and applies a charge according to result. It drops the current right down as the battery charges up to max then cycles through testing and charging as required.

 

[Crankin04]

First off, Thanks for all the info guys...

Fred1956 - I will give that a try.

Wence - I've heard those turntech batteries are amazing. I'm thinking I'll go that route next!

iancp5 - I will probably get a battery conditioner as well, cause I would rather keep my battery stable and up to date, instead of on a constant "charge" ALL the time.

Crankin04

 

[Fred1956]

First off, Thanks for all the info guys...

Fred1956 - I will give that a try.

Wence - I've heard those turntech batteries are amazing. I'm thinking I'll go that route next!

iancp5 - I will probably get a battery conditioner as well, cause I would rather keep my battery stable and up to date, instead of on a constant "charge" ALL the time.

Crankin04

Make sure you also check it all through the RPM range, a bad rectifier/regulator may give 13.6 at idle but give 17V at 3/4 throttle

 

[Crankin04]

Make sure you also check it all through the RPM range, a bad rectifier/regulator may give 13.6 at idle but give 17V at 3/4 throttle

Gotcha. I'll hook up to my software and cable and test that out to see if any voltage increases as the RPM's increase.

Thanks!

Crankin04

 

[mcludd]

Could also be a diode in the rectifier gone bad allowing current to "leak" to earth
That would give the right signals whilst running but drain away whilst resting
Never had a bike do it but I did have a landrover that kept me guessing for quite a while with this

 

[twowheels]

Just finished a rebuild on an '05 450 FSE ... the owner brought two batteries when the bike was dropped off.

Even under the best circumstances, if I had to crank the bike more than a couple times either battery was good for two starts max. The kickstart was utterly useless ...

 

[iancp5]

Just finished a rebuild on an '05 450 FSE ... the owner brought two batteries when the bike was dropped off.

Even under the best circumstances, if I had to crank the bike more than a couple times either battery was good for two starts max. The kickstart was utterly useless ...

Sounds like mine. A 2006. Just went to the garage to start it as it's been sat for quite a while. It's getting cold now and the oil is thick. It started immediately idled a couple of secs then stalled then wouldn't start because the crank speed was now too low! The battery is now back on the Optimate so I can try again soon. The battery/starter is just too marginal. I had the same problems last winter, only a fully charged battery can crank fast enough. GasGas - not everyone lives in Spain or California either make a kickstart that works or a starter that's up to the job in winter or an ECU that adjusts correctly and doesn't let a cold engine stall. Every other injection bike I have raises the idle when cold.

I think it's also a lot to do with the budget Fi, both cold starting and the kickstart issue. My theory is that unless the engine spins fast it just can't fire up. A slightly more powerful starter might fix it. Anyone know how to tune electric motors?

 

[speeddemon]

I have a 2009 450 model and it idles at 1900-2080 rpm when hot but will sometimes make just 1600-1700 rpm the first minute i start it which can result in the typical cough and stall . I really hate it when that happens because it won't start immediatly after when cold. I fix this by putting idle (when hot) at 2050-2200 rpm's which let's the motorcycle start faster and with slightly higher start rpm's. The downpart of this is that it heats up quicker when waiting at traffic lights, crossroads etc... The only fuel injected bike besides the Gas Gas i ever had was a honda SH300 scooter and this thing always fired up within a second of a button's touch and always idled smooth from the start even at extreme cold winter temperatures. I also have had 5 carburated road motorcycles and not one of them gave me problems except a shitty throttle response when cold. It's a shame that the FI gasser's have these problems because fuel injection shouldn't give you problems no matter at which altitude or temperatures you ride.

 

[webmaster]

Contact the user "Nick" here on the forum - he was previously a gasgas dealer in elko, nevada - he has the most experience, and success, of anyone I know in setting up this motor.

I would run a synthetic oil in the bike in the wintertime to eliminate the slow idle issue. Also, I remember from long ago, that one thing that helped during a hard start scenario was to turn the bike off for a minute or two to allow the ECU to reset and try again.

Jeff

 

[speeddemon]

Thanks for the tips . I will use synthetic oil next time i change my oil, i have always used MOTUL 5100 10W40 before. Will try MOTUL 300V 5W40 next time i do an oil change.

 

[webmaster]

Do an advanced search on the forum here - specify the user name to be "Nick" and the keyword "starting" - you will see alot of tips in the results...

1. Install a manual cam chain tensioner - I would imagine this is the same manual cam chain tensioner for a suzuki drz400 - the oem one on the suzuki is junk and a billet replacement is available. -
2. You only need to turn off for 10-15 seconds for the ecu to reset if it doesn't start initially.

3. There are other tricks - but not sure if they apply to the '04 - e.g. modifying the cam to change the cranking pressure when the decompression mechanism is engaged.


Jeff

 

[webmaster]

Out of curiosity, I also looked up the specs on the parts unlimited battery that is "equivalent" to the yuasa ytz7s battery that you should be using - they actually don't make the exact same battery - so you probably have one with less CCA (cold cranking amps).

The parts unlimited battery that I see is spec'ed at 90 cold cranking amps whereas the yuasa has 130...

I would spend the extra $$$ and get the exact yuasa that is spec'ed for the bike...

jeff

 

[speeddemon]

I'm now running synthetic oil CHAMPION 4T RACING 5W50 ESTER at 16 €/l. Was planning to use motul 300V synthetic but at 20€ for a liter as opposed to the previously bought motul 5100 half synthetic at 9€/l, the price was too much for me since the mechanic from the shop suggested synthetic CHAMPION oil. The only differences i notice are: slightly faster starting and slightly harder shifting. I bought it to stop my low idle cold issue but that sadly doesn't work. Guess i'll have to live with that little issue but hey for the rest there ain't anything to complain about the 450 engine .

 

[iancp5]

Make sure you also check it all through the RPM range, a bad rectifier/regulator may give 13.6 at idle but give 17V at 3/4 throttle

I wouldn't give it 3/4 throttle in neutral!! Unless you're very confident of the rev limiter. Just rev it a bit.

 

[builder28]

low down starting blues

Kicking around a couple of ideas to try on my FS450 this winter. Turnteck battery seams like a must with larger diameter wires to the starter. I dont have the bike at my house right now to see what is stock. Makes sence to deliver as much juice to the starter as possible.
Anybody try a block heater that they use on boats? There fairly cheap and dont take a lot of juice. My cold start procudure is to kick and elec start at the same time. Usually allways works but if it doesnt I am screwed. Last time that happened I had to compression start it down a 1/4 mi hill. I know I have to figure this out because the next time it happens its going over the hill.