Full auto

Clay

Clay

Banned
I was just reading the auto clutch thread and there seems to be a 50/50 opinion.
Those of you who like the auto clutch.....what do you think about an engine with a full auto tranny like the Husky had back in the day ? Of course it would be updated so that it did not have the problems that the Husky had?
Before anyone assumes that GG or Sherco has asked me about this....they have not. I wanted to know what you guys thought?
 
I don't have an auto clutch and have never used one so haven't commented on that thread but I don't think an auto bike would be of interest to me. That's part of the fun of navigating trails, being in the right gear and having to fight through being in the wrong gear. The only thing that might be cool about an auto bike would be not worrying about the dreaded neutral drop on a hill climb!!:eek:
 
Its a hard one to call Clay. It would have to be able to be configured by the owners and also have the ability to change gears manually and also a clutch over-ride.

If it was set up to slip between the gears to provide max traction is poor conditions it would then take a hammering when you're trying to hook it up on some hard pack. It'd be unnerving riding in some slop and having it changing gears on its own unexpectidly. The bike becomes unpredictable enough in these conditions and the clutch is the saviour.

Also will there be a delay from when you click the next gear and it engaging like there are with cars with manual override?
 
Brilliant question, Clay.

I bet there would be lovers and haters. But if were reliable and made everyone a better rider, I think there would be a lot of takers.

On the gas or on the brakes: that's truly riding like a pro!

It would also have the gadget factor and be the latest and greatest. Many would buy it for just those facets.
 
What about clutchless...Direct-drive. gas on, gas off. Gearing choices would become fairly critical. Probably need to be shaft driven, and the list goes on...I'd like to do an autoclutch one of these days. Much like backpacking...As I get older comfort becomes a priority.
 
If it was something like the core exp that you could do for a couple hundy over the cost of the stock setup I think it would be a smart business move with either of the lines.

Most people would take the bump for a 700 dollar value if it only cost them 200 ish dollars...which by the time you don't pay for the stock basket etc. may be pretty close. I think you would get a TON of pumpkin riders that way.

I personally don't like them but would take the bump for a couple hundys and feel real good about it. I know all the rhetoric that goes with this conversation and I feel like I am pretty damn good with a clutch, but I think the REAL reason a lot more haven't tried one or KEPT one is the cost.

It would be a way to differentiate between a LOT of the Euro brands offering similar setups. I think it would be a shrewd move. I am sure you would also be getting quite the deal since you would essentially giving Rekluse or revloc or insert company name developing such a thing...A LOT of business.

Ballsy but I think it would pay off huge especially on small number brands such as GG or Sherco.

JMTC
 
I would be first in line for that. Strangely, I'm on the fence on just the clutch, but the auto shift would be awesome. I am one of the few folks that has had the priveledge of spending time on a Husky ae430. My friend had one, and it was AWESOME, except if was expensive when it broke, AND back then we didn't have F/R disk brakes. Funny, I've often wondered about getting ahold of an old AE430 (if I could find one with unbroken cases) and trying to retrofit a modern autoclutch (likely from 80cc) in place of the fragile first gear clutch pack, and then put on modern forks and brakes.
 
The way it was explained to me by an expert is that the cases would have to be totally different from what the current engines are like so I don't think you would have options of manual or auto but I don't know, honestly. I think all of the bugs of the old Husky could be fixed. I know it would be more expensive but hopefully no more than adding a Core EXP.
DOn't even think this is something GG or Sherco is contemplating. I am asking for personal rreasons.
 
Clay said:
The way it was explained to me by an expert is that the cases would have to be totally different from what the current engines are like so I don't think you would have options of manual or auto but I don't know, honestly. I think all of the bugs of the old Husky could be fixed. I know it would be more expensive but hopefully no more than adding a Core EXP.
DOn't even think this is something GG or Sherco is contemplating. I am asking for personal rreasons.
Click to expand...


I've been riding bikes with auto clutches for 6 years. Husky WR125 with an EFM was my first. I was a real doubter, especially with a 125, but it works. The EFM worked well with the 125, because it had full clutch lever action, which the old Rekluse didn't. I have an EXP in my Husaberg TE250.

I tried Husky Autos back in the day, but stuck to a 6 speed, as benefits didn't balance out the problems. I'm suprised Husky didn't try to get disc brakes front and rear on this bike sooner, like a Rokon.

How can small companies afford the extra tooling for these limited number of engine cases? Husaberg 70 degree engine is gone, supposedly because KTM doesn't want to bear the costs of keeping the existing or upgrading the tooling. Husky paid for the auto tooling with Swedish Military bike contracts. NATO going to buy GG Autos?

That said, I think the auto clutch is the perfect compromise. a gear for every situation and an auto clutch to smooth things out. Rokon and Husky proved that fully auto bikes (in two different flavors) will never gain wide acceptance. The amount of riders who rode autos in the day, was never even close percentage wise, to numbers running auto clutches today.
 
I'm thinking something like a CVT (continuously variable transmission), no clutches/gearsets. Functions like a torque converter on snowmobile but totally enclosed linked metal "belt". Like a few modern small cars. I raced a Honda Odyssey buggy a while back with essentially the same TC as a snomobile or the Rokon. You just hammer it and let the thing work. Problem was belt slippage, overheating, etc.
 
If it ran somewhat like my FJR autoshift, I would be interested to ride one and see what you could make of it.

Honestly, when I bought it, the autoclutch/paddle shift was a bit of a turn off.

After 2 seasons of riding with it, I would have a hard time swapping it for a clutch lever. There are certain instances where if you do a burn out, unintended consequences arise. Namely, with a FJR it does not disengage until too low of an RPM so the engine essentially locks up when the rear tire gets traction and violently stops the motor. This may or may not be an issue with a dirt scooter.

I think the basic concept of the FJR is quite simple. All it is, is an autoclutch with an actuator that maneuvers the gearbox when you touch the paddle. A simple program to do the shifting for you would seem quite easy.

In my mind you would pick a rpm high in the range to induce a shift when throttle is relieved, and when rpm would go below x,000 rpm it would shift it up a notch. To go one further, on an EFI bike you could retard the timing when a shift was called for, or with an electronic power valve you could close it for a split second to allow for the shift.

All should be easily fine tuned by a laptop program I would think. In all seriousness, there should be a way you could fit the actuator with a sensor on the bike and ride for say 1 hour and the shift computer could learn your tendencies, then when you finished that you could fine tune it more. But that would give a baseline.
 
People are afraid of EFI/DI, they will freak at a fully computerized transmission on a dirtbike!:eek:

I'm thinking something like a CVT, driven with a conventional autoclutch. The CVT uses a linked belt, like a chain but with a "V" profile with grooves in the sides of the links. The drive and driven "pullys" that vary diameter will have mating grooves and both grooves will trap balls like a Rekluse. As the dia varies with RPM, the belt and balls ride the grooves up and down. No slippage except from the front end autoclutch, and the nature of the transmission would make that simple to set up. Technologilly advanced, yes, but incredably simple at the same time. Once it is debugged it should be cheaper to produce than a conventional transmission.

Yeah, I'm a bit bored this morning and had a big coffee.:)
 
The husky auto was a good system, it just suffered from heat and forces on the first gear clutch. The operation and durability of the 2nd, 3rd (and 4th when it had 4 speeds) was acceptable. Replace the 1st gear flyweight with a rekluse style clutch pack, and you're in business. My son's ktm 50 pro has the flyweights type clutch, and they break even with less than 15hp being pushed thru them.
 
I would personally love a full auto system. Fuel injection and full auto? Sign me up.

To never worry about gear selection, or breaking that selector lever would be very nice.

I have ridden the Husky auto as well. I thought it was weird at the time, but I have become a convert.
 
tm_enduro said:
The husky auto was a good system, it just suffered from heat and forces on the first gear clutch. The operation and durability of the 2nd, 3rd (and 4th when it had 4 speeds) was acceptable. Replace the 1st gear flyweight with a rekluse style clutch pack, and you're in business. My son's ktm 50 pro has the flyweights type clutch, and they break even with less than 15hp being pushed thru them.
Click to expand...

I hope you or someone does the 1st gear clutch conversion. Stick that 430/500AE engine in an '01 up TE400/570 frame, so you have the most developed enduro version of the old single shock frame and you'll be in business.... Brakes, suspension, geometry and ergos to make it rock!
 
GMP said:
People are afraid of EFI/DI, they will freak at a fully computerized transmission on a dirtbike!:eek:

I'm thinking something like a CVT, driven with a conventional autoclutch. The CVT uses a linked belt, like a chain but with a "V" profile with grooves in the sides of the links. The drive and driven "pullys" that vary diameter will have mating grooves and both grooves will trap balls like a Rekluse. As the dia varies with RPM, the belt and balls ride the grooves up and down. No slippage except from the front end autoclutch, and the nature of the transmission would make that simple to set up. Technologilly advanced, yes, but incredably simple at the same time. Once it is debugged it should be cheaper to produce than a conventional transmission.

Yeah, I'm a bit bored this morning and had a big coffee.:)
Click to expand...

There is a guy here in Nova Scotia that could build that kind of setup. He has been building and supplying to the ATV and sled markets for years.
 
I'm a manual everything type of guy. I firmly believe that "automatic transmissions are wonderful devices for disabled people". That goes for auto clutches too. If those came stock, you'd never sell me a bike. There's no doubt I'd be in the minority. Manufacturers make the most money building products for the lowest common denominator of society. But don't worry, old guys like me won't be around that much longer anyway.
 
I wouldn't know where to start on the idea of an auto tranny. The CVT's in 4 wheelers and sleds seem to work very well, but that is an "apples to oranges" comparison. I've owned a Polaris 500 Sportsman ('99) and now a Kaw 650('08)and both worked very well. Perhaps if some adjustment for the shift up/down rpm was possible that would apeal to more buyers. An automatic transmission would be fine w/me but the base line for performance and reliability has been set pretty high by the standard gearbox. An auto clutch option seems to appeal to most. I think we all want the bike to be smooth and tractable and then have something that accelerates like top fuel dragster when the terrain opens up, not very likely with most bikes. I do like the idea of some new thinking on this subject. Jim
 
I used to be a Husky dealer and had several autos I would buy one if available. I still have an AE430 that I haven't run in several years but should.

Thanks
Harold
 
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