Clay
Banned
Part 1.
There has been a lot of discussion on this forum about the whole 200 thing and I recently discovered some info that adds to the equation. First of all, the Saturday before I went to France I took my GG 300 set up for me with heavier springs, steering damper, Rekluse, etc to our practice trail to see how my lap times would compare to me on my son's Sherco 300i Race. Since I had never had a chance to ride a GG200, I took one of those too. It was totally stock except for EE handguards. I rode the 300 one lap without timing to get a good handle on the lap then I rode for the clock. Here are my lap times:
Lap 1 GG 300- 7:51
Lap 1 Sherco 300i Race-7:38
Lap 1 GG 200- 7:28
There was such a big difference that I was sure that I was getting faster due to learning the course so I did it again.
Lap 2 GG 300- 7:39
Lap 2 Sherco- 7:34
Lap 2 GG 200- 7:24
Please keep in mind that from December 1979 until I left Kawasaki in 2001, I raced KDX175/200/220s so I'm an experienced 200 rider. I naturally got a 200EXC when I went to work for KTM but I hated it because it hit so hard. In February 2003 I tried a KTM 300 EXC and loved it so I quit riding 200s and haven't ridden one since I ride the GG two weeks ago. But even though I have a lot of 200 experience I was surprised that my laps on the 200 were faster because my timing and reflexes on the 200 were still pretty rusty. In addition to being faster, I had a huge grin on my face while riding the 200. I would have raced a 200 in TX if I had time to set one up but I had to leave on Monday to go to France to the Sherco factory.
Part 2.
Since I had the experience of part 1 fresh on my mind, I naturally asked the engineer who was working on the Sherco 2T models about a 125/200 Sherco. This engineer, Boni (don't know his last name) is a great guy. He worked for GG for a long time and was the guy who designed the GG 2T engines. I asked him if he was going to design a 125. He said he was. I told him to keep it in mind that the US would need it as a 200. He asked if it had to bee 200cc and I, of course, said yes. So then he explained why it should not be a 200 and this will explain why GG built the 200 from the 250.
Keep in mind when I explain this I may have some of my dimensions wrong because this was a whole lot of technical info for a salesman. Boni explained that when GG told him to build a 200 that he chose to reduce the bore of a 250 rather than increase the bore of a 125 because, when the engine size is increased to "over square" dimensions, the bike will have a hard hit. The stroke on a 125 is 61mm and the piston needed to get it to 200cc is 64mm so the engine is over square. That is the case with the KTM 200 and explains why it hits hard. He said that he could increase the 125 to something like 167cc and keep it ridable. Or, he could decrease the bore on a 250 and it would be a much smoother motor like the GG 200 which is exactly why GG chose to make a 200 from the 250 platform rather than the 125. Of course, the problem with this is a heavier 200 than the orange one. Even if it is heavier is certainly is easier to ride. That's what I plan to race when the doc gives me the green light.
Now....back to part 1. Why was I faster on the 200? I think it was the corner speed. There were a few turns on this course that I could just rail easier on the 200 than I could on the 300. Throttle control was much more critical on the 300 in those corners. Of course I had to use a lot more clutch and I had to shift a whole lot more but it was really fun to do that again. Do I think that everyone should now ride a 200? Nope. 300s are fun too and probably easier to ride in technical stuff. I do think the GG 200 is a much, much better bike for the beginner and kids jumping from a 100/105 than the orange 200 is. I would not let my son ride an orange 200 when he outgrew the 105 because of the hit that bike has. He could have easily ridden the GG200.
So...that's my two cents on the whole 200 discussion. It took me three years of selling GG to finally get on a 200. I shouldn't have waited that long!
Clay
There has been a lot of discussion on this forum about the whole 200 thing and I recently discovered some info that adds to the equation. First of all, the Saturday before I went to France I took my GG 300 set up for me with heavier springs, steering damper, Rekluse, etc to our practice trail to see how my lap times would compare to me on my son's Sherco 300i Race. Since I had never had a chance to ride a GG200, I took one of those too. It was totally stock except for EE handguards. I rode the 300 one lap without timing to get a good handle on the lap then I rode for the clock. Here are my lap times:
Lap 1 GG 300- 7:51
Lap 1 Sherco 300i Race-7:38
Lap 1 GG 200- 7:28
There was such a big difference that I was sure that I was getting faster due to learning the course so I did it again.
Lap 2 GG 300- 7:39
Lap 2 Sherco- 7:34
Lap 2 GG 200- 7:24
Please keep in mind that from December 1979 until I left Kawasaki in 2001, I raced KDX175/200/220s so I'm an experienced 200 rider. I naturally got a 200EXC when I went to work for KTM but I hated it because it hit so hard. In February 2003 I tried a KTM 300 EXC and loved it so I quit riding 200s and haven't ridden one since I ride the GG two weeks ago. But even though I have a lot of 200 experience I was surprised that my laps on the 200 were faster because my timing and reflexes on the 200 were still pretty rusty. In addition to being faster, I had a huge grin on my face while riding the 200. I would have raced a 200 in TX if I had time to set one up but I had to leave on Monday to go to France to the Sherco factory.
Part 2.
Since I had the experience of part 1 fresh on my mind, I naturally asked the engineer who was working on the Sherco 2T models about a 125/200 Sherco. This engineer, Boni (don't know his last name) is a great guy. He worked for GG for a long time and was the guy who designed the GG 2T engines. I asked him if he was going to design a 125. He said he was. I told him to keep it in mind that the US would need it as a 200. He asked if it had to bee 200cc and I, of course, said yes. So then he explained why it should not be a 200 and this will explain why GG built the 200 from the 250.
Keep in mind when I explain this I may have some of my dimensions wrong because this was a whole lot of technical info for a salesman. Boni explained that when GG told him to build a 200 that he chose to reduce the bore of a 250 rather than increase the bore of a 125 because, when the engine size is increased to "over square" dimensions, the bike will have a hard hit. The stroke on a 125 is 61mm and the piston needed to get it to 200cc is 64mm so the engine is over square. That is the case with the KTM 200 and explains why it hits hard. He said that he could increase the 125 to something like 167cc and keep it ridable. Or, he could decrease the bore on a 250 and it would be a much smoother motor like the GG 200 which is exactly why GG chose to make a 200 from the 250 platform rather than the 125. Of course, the problem with this is a heavier 200 than the orange one. Even if it is heavier is certainly is easier to ride. That's what I plan to race when the doc gives me the green light.
Now....back to part 1. Why was I faster on the 200? I think it was the corner speed. There were a few turns on this course that I could just rail easier on the 200 than I could on the 300. Throttle control was much more critical on the 300 in those corners. Of course I had to use a lot more clutch and I had to shift a whole lot more but it was really fun to do that again. Do I think that everyone should now ride a 200? Nope. 300s are fun too and probably easier to ride in technical stuff. I do think the GG 200 is a much, much better bike for the beginner and kids jumping from a 100/105 than the orange 200 is. I would not let my son ride an orange 200 when he outgrew the 105 because of the hit that bike has. He could have easily ridden the GG200.
So...that's my two cents on the whole 200 discussion. It took me three years of selling GG to finally get on a 200. I shouldn't have waited that long!
Clay
I'm faster on my 165 Husky than I was on a 450R Honda. I had to find out the hard way a big bike isn't always faster for me. For me what Clint Eastwood said " a man's gotta know his limitations" is true. I'm stlill looking at the 300 Sherco as I have the 200 covered with the 165. Thanks for posting up real numbers on your lap times.
