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skraMnoR
Guest
I mean cleaner as in "burning". The DI 2T does not exhaust un-burned fuel like a normal 2T.
gasgas/ossa
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Clay
Banned
So is the Ossa Explorer dead? It has the same 280 cc FI 2-stroke that their trials bikes have been running for a couple of years now. I also thought their new 13 enduro was going to be running the same FI engine. Hummm.
I was told that GG would also build the Explorer for Ossa but I don't think it was an EFI or DI bike. I understood it had a carb. I was also told that the DI/EFI bikes Ossa had been showing were hand built prototypes and were not ready for production. Please keep in mind that sometimes the language thing is tough to overcome and I may have misunderstood some points but I specifically asked about the injected bike because there has been so much interest in it. We were talking about this at dinner on Wednesday night at a restaurant in downtown Girona and the four people at the table next to us were all talking at once. I asked again on Thursday so I could hear it again!
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skraMnoR
Guest
Thanks for looking into it Clay. I am NOT a carb person and look forward to the day when I won't have to think about jetting etc.
desertgasser300
Banned
Mixed emotions about the DI/EFI on my dirtbikes I abuse. Maintenance is already expensive enough without an injector going out or whatever electronics that run it.
To much electronics on dirt bikes now. Now Yami wants to incorporate an electronic steering stablizer. Pretty soon they will make bikes fly by wire.
To much electronics on dirt bikes now. Now Yami wants to incorporate an electronic steering stablizer. Pretty soon they will make bikes fly by wire.
Clay
Banned
Do you want to buy an Explorer? Is there interest in that type of combo bike? A bike crossed between an off road bike and a trials bike? Actually....not just interest to see but in interest to buy?
Clay
Banned
I agree with you, too. I'm worried about the teething problems with these systems. 3beejay mentioned snowmobiles and its a good analogy but for the dust and heat that dirt bikes are in. I asked the engineers about DI working better on 2T's than 4T's because of less heat and they said they thought there would be less issues because the 4T's put out so much heat in off road conditions but they did not know yet. There are lots of unknowns with this sytem.
Another difference here too. The DI system in Europe will be to meet emissions issues, not to perform better. The Euro companies will have to play games with throttle stops and other stuff to meet those emission levels even with DI. Then they will have to build another system for full off road. Alway keep this in mind..... They aren't going to this sytem to gain hp and performance but to lose emissions.
GMP
Active member
Yes, but with DI it should be primarly software (mapping), and easily selected. The DI system(current technology) is a bit tall and bulky on the head, so it might pay to approach it with a new lay down cylinder engine design. Both could be tested independently before being mated.
If I had to guess I'd say the biggest issue will be lubrication and long term engine life. The marine guys went through hell with this. Snowmobiles seem OK but there is a lot more room for oil tanks, etc.
I'd like one, but I don't want to do part of there R&D on my dime. Been down that road with a 440 Cannondale.
If I had to guess I'd say the biggest issue will be lubrication and long term engine life. The marine guys went through hell with this. Snowmobiles seem OK but there is a lot more room for oil tanks, etc.
I'd like one, but I don't want to do part of there R&D on my dime. Been down that road with a 440 Cannondale.
I'd be inclined to believe that heat and dust wouldn't likely be an issue; no more than they are for carbed bikes. Given that it's a closed system, as long as your gas & air are clean, no problem. If those things are dirty, they'd stop a carbed bike just as fast. Also given that those issues haven't been a problem on any of the current injected bikes and that all kinds of other engines have been using FI/EFI for decades in conditions way hotter/dirtier/tougher than what a dirtbike goes thru (think off-road/mining/construction/farming equipment for starters).
The only issues with EFI systems I'm aware of have been from internal problems(Husaberg gas tank coatings) and sensor problems on some huskies- none of those were the fault of the EFI system itself.
DI shouldn't/wouldn't suffer any differently.
Regarding lubrication- I'd love a bike with a small oil tank and oil injection. The oil injection takes up almost no space and only weighs a few ounces & there's lots of space on a bike to stick a 500 ml or 1l oil tank.
It all may be moot once they figure out how to cheaply get 3-4 hour ranges on electric bikes...............
Regardless, it is exciting to see a rennaisance happening in dirt bike design similar to what we saw in the late 70's early 80's.
desertgasser300
Banned
Here in Az. where the temps only rival that of hell. The two gentlemen that purchased new 2011 EFI Burgs sat out a race in the middle of the enduro because of boiling fuel issues.
Air, fuel and an ignition source keeps the fires burning. Just hesitant having an injector keeping my fuel to the ingnition source.
Air, fuel and an ignition source keeps the fires burning. Just hesitant having an injector keeping my fuel to the ingnition source.
Clay
Banned
I had prolly 4 or 5 Husabergs in the 2 years I worked for them and they all had a hiccup/cough/stall problem that they still haven't fixed on the 4Ts. Lafferty dnf'ed the TX national due to an EFI issue and they never did find out what was wrong with the bike. KTM has had filter problems and other issues. I agree that EFI seems to work in a lot of applications but it hasn't been the perfect solution some have hoped it would be.
Yes Clay I have a real interest in buying an Explorer type cross over bike. Having a 200 or 250 GG motor wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit either. I love the idea of a fun light weight REAL play bike. No need for 5 gallon tank or other stuff for serious trail/enduro bikes. I really liked what I saw with the Ossa Explorer. I'm not a one bike kinda guy and think a bike like that would be nice. The Honda CRF230 and Yamaha 230 are good bikes I guess but weigh a ton, have ok brakes, handling, suspension, engines, etc. I want a real playbike. BTW I saw a T/ride or something one time for sale on ebay and someone beat me to that one. Explorer with a GG engine....sounds good 
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.Vindicator
New member
FI can be a real pain especially in the dirt and using suspicious gas . One of our Dakar rally pilots, Helder Rodrigues, resisted as much as he could on having an EFI Yamaha. The Yamaha EFI bikes (YZ450) had all sort of problems in their first Dakar year and most recently Helder had to drop out of the Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge due to engine gremlins on his new YZ450...
My 2 biggest concerns with FI/DI is not being able to debug/tune and the quality of the gas. If by any change you get a batch of contaminated gas (water, etc) then you're done... Imagine you guys doing Cameron's Rip to the Tip with an FI bike and filling your tank with gas of uncontrolled source...Would you do it ?
But I have to admit that it's the only way 2ST can survive although it's my belief that manufacturers will not unleash all the potential of a DI/FI MX engine in a near future because they still have to capitalize on those complicated, hard to maintain, oil drinkers, expensive and useless 4 strokes
My 2 biggest concerns with FI/DI is not being able to debug/tune and the quality of the gas. If by any change you get a batch of contaminated gas (water, etc) then you're done... Imagine you guys doing Cameron's Rip to the Tip with an FI bike and filling your tank with gas of uncontrolled source...Would you do it ?
But I have to admit that it's the only way 2ST can survive although it's my belief that manufacturers will not unleash all the potential of a DI/FI MX engine in a near future because they still have to capitalize on those complicated, hard to maintain, oil drinkers, expensive and useless 4 strokes
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robszombie
New member
That chap, really should be wearing a helmet!!!!
arminhammer
New member
I have ridin the explorer and have to say it's a fun bike. There are a few things I have a problem with on it.
1 The gear box spacing is very odd.
2 The foot peg to shifter is still a trials set up. For a play bike I would like to leave my foot on the peg to shift.
1 The gear box spacing is very odd.
2 The foot peg to shifter is still a trials set up. For a play bike I would like to leave my foot on the peg to shift.
