GasGas15 vs Beta 15/16....

[Simmo737]

I've had a 11,13 and 15 300, the 15 is the best bits of the 11 (trialsy balanced low CG feel) and the 13 (Stable and great carver of ruts) in a smaller, lighter chassis. As a bonus the chassis has a softer suspension feel than 13 but feels stiff in turns and rails ruts just unreal. The motor is a torquier less hit development of the 13. I've not ridden the beta, I've sat on one and didn't like the super high pegs and Ktm esque bar posn, but you'd get used to it pretty quick.

 

[twowheels]

With the gg you get this forum!
And I know it's superficial but the gg looks better!

You may be interested in the sister forum to this betarider.org

Same great format, populated by guys that ride and tune their Betas. Many have come from GasGas ...

 

[gasser]

Riding a 300 race back to back with my 2011 gasser I didn't notice the weight difference at all but the pegs are a lot higher and that really stood out to me. I could get used to it but it would be harder on my arthritic knee getting up and down. To be fair though I've had to get used to protecting my feet on the gasser because of the low peg height.

 

[JP4]

If you want a new ride now, you may want to look at a Sherco in addition to the Beta.

From my experience, the Sherco has all the best attributes of a Gasser, with none of the GG shortcomings. The new Sherco 300 SE-R (2-t) is the bike GasGas wish they had built.

Some of the GG faithful are turned off by the US Sherco importer. No comment on that. For me, things couldn't be better with the Canadian operation - great importer, great dealer and flawless parts supply.

Jason

 

[Terrence R]

If you want a new ride now, you may want to look at a Sherco in addition to the Beta.

From my experience, the Sherco has all the best attributes of a Gasser, with none of the GG shortcomings. The new Sherco 300 SE-R (2-t) is the bike GasGas wish they had built.

Some of the GG faithful are turned off by the US Sherco importer. No comment on that. For me, things couldn't be better with the Canadian operation - great importer, great dealer and flawless parts supply.

Jason

I too have interest in the Sherco machines. From what I've heard though, is the power isn't at all smooth and linear compared to the GG and the Beta 300. I never got to throw a leg over a Sherco, but I'm guessing that the power delivery is more similar to a husky WR. The big problem for me right now is that there's beginning to be so many options for a 300 enduro bike now other than the well known KTM. But in all honesty, it seems like Beta has set the bar higher than ever.

 

[celler]

To me, it feels the beta's power is more linear... The suspension definitely for me is better on gg than beta.

I eventually got my 2011 very smooth but it required going it to the power valve governor and linkage combined with a lot of jetting. I'm still working on my 05 trying to get it as smooth My Beta was turn a screw to make the power like you want. I have not found anyone commenting on the 15 GasGas adjustment. People talk about it as a feature but I don't hear how well it works. When I hear mild to wild that sounds like turning it in so far the bike is slow or have it set and it has a hit. But can it be adjusted for a linear power?

 

[Jakobi]

If you consider the sole purpose of a powervalve, it is to provide an optimum port size for given rpms. By nature it allows one to change the feel of the bike, but realistically it is there to provide a smaller port at low revs (improving bottom end response), while still opening up to allow max rpm and over-rev.

The transition is where the magic happens. If it opens too soon you can get a dip in power, if it opens too fast you can get a dip/spike. If it opens too late it can cause the bike to feel like it signs off and then hit again. Ideally it will be matched with the jetting, port mapping/timing and ignition to provide the best and smoothest curve through the transition and at part port.

 

[hadfield4wd]

If you want a new ride now, you may want to look at a Sherco in addition to the Beta.



From my experience, the Sherco has all the best attributes of a Gasser, with none of the GG shortcomings. The new Sherco 300 SE-R (2-t) is the bike GasGas wish they had built.



Some of the GG faithful are turned off by the US Sherco importer. No comment on that. For me, things couldn't be better with the Canadian operation - great importer, great dealer and flawless parts supply.



Jason

Knowing that every bike has shortcomings. What are these shortcomings you refer too? I'm not being a jerk I really want to learn.

 

[JP4]

No offence taken.

Let me start by saying I'm not bagging on GG, and I'd buy another one. For me, I wanted a new bike now and GG was not in production. Beta and Sherco have upped the game in the enduro world (for those of us who won't go to the orange brands) so GG needs to do the same to be competitive. I think the new management knows this too. I'm excited to see what they have for 2017 and beyond.

What do I see as current GG shortcomings:

- The newer GGs are heavy. And some of that weight is in bad places, like the battery above the air filter. The Sherco battery is below the filter, so more airbox volume and lower cg.

- The GG e-start is an afterthought. The 15's are reported to be better, but it's still just a bolt on. With Sherco and Beta the starter is built into the sump. Again, lower cg and it works better.

- Suspension components. The older Sachs stuff required a re-valve to be ride-able, and some replacement parts are non-existent. The Zokes forks have known quality issues. The Reiger shock is said to be good, but it's a foreign piece of kit on this side of the pond. The Sherco comes with WP suspension. The fork is OC, but it's valved for the masses and works well for most when correctly sprung. WP sells a cone valve kit if you want to go that route. Parts and service for WP stuff is readily available.

-Brakes. The Brembo units on the Sherco are head and shoulders better than the dated Nissin stuff on the Gassers.

-Swingarm. The GG piece is an old boat anchor. From what I can tell, Beta, Sherco and KTM source their much lighter swingarms from the same place.

-Quality control and fit and finish. GG is getting better, but they still have a long way to go. When compared to a new Beta, Sherco or KTM, a Gasser is pretty rough. Has anybody ever got the airboot to easily and neatly align with the carb? What a dose it is trying to get that sealed up properly on the GG. My GG came with several stripped bolts from the factory. Not sure how that gets out the door.

Another poster above stated that the Sherco power delivery is not smooth and linear like the GG. I don't know what bike he rode, but that is not my experience. The Sherco spools up a bit quicker than the GG (not as quick as the OB though) and pulls harder on top, but I don't see it as not smooth or linear. Check out the vid to see for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BH63k8HCgc
As a bonus, the Sherco has an electronic powervalve and the map switch controls both ignition timing and opening of the pv. It makes a huge difference. If you want ridiculously soft, smooth power, just go to the soft map.

 

[Jakobi]

Hard to disagree with the points above.

No real issues with carb boot on my 13' model.. at least where it fits the carb. It does rub against the frame/frame guards though, so point still valid.

Brakes are here nor there. Brembo vs Nissin is different for sure but Brembos don't come without their own set of quirks and issues.

And that applies for all bikes from all brands. They all have pro's and all have con's. and as an end user it's about picking from what is available at the right time, for the right dollars, that suits your purpose. I've never understood brand loyalty when it can relate overall to less value. One big consideration when buying also depends how invested you are in parts. For me I know I can carry across spares (pistons, heads, cylinders, brake components, move rad braces, pipe guards, etc). If you factor the cost and time of replacement it can somewhat justify sticking with a particular known brand over another.

I've owned a 2010, 2013, and have access to a 15 to test ride on occassions. My feelings are on par with what Simmo737 has said.

I've also managed to get a leg over a new Beta 300RR. Suspension probably too soft for my preference (but expect almost all bikes to require some work in this area). Engine strong and ran well. Ergo's different, but still good. Overall feels quite compact and sharp. Still not sold on the oil injection, the Sachs, and time will tell how those hi-visi red/orangish plastics hold up.

 

[hadfield4wd]

Thanks. Yeah I think every bike has its issues, I just wanted to know the GG ones. I know I love mine!!!

I will not buy orange.

 

[JP4]

Hey Jake,

If you get the opportunity, have a look over and go for a ride on a Sherco. I'm curious to see what you think of the bikes.

Cheers,

Jason

 

[Terrence R]

http://youtu.be/ZUypEh1_mTM

JP4,
This link is what I was basing the power delivery topic about. I'm just realizing that's it's about the 2015 model. So, the 2016 may differ. I'm yet to ride a Sherco though. I would love to try one though.

 

[celler]

If you consider the sole purpose of a powervalve, it is to provide an optimum port size for given rpms. By nature it allows one to change the feel of the bike, but realistically it is there to provide a smaller port at low revs (improving bottom end response), while still opening up to allow max rpm and over-rev.

The transition is where the magic happens. If it opens too soon you can get a dip in power, if it opens too fast you can get a dip/spike. If it opens too late it can cause the bike to feel like it signs off and then hit again. Ideally it will be matched with the jetting, port mapping/timing and ignition to provide the best and smoothest curve through the transition and at part port.

Understood but what is being understood much better with the new designs is the power valves can be set to progressively open over a wider RPM band. The numbers I have seen is that pre 2015 GasGas and YZ open over 500 RPM while the Beta, KTM, and new Yamaha open over 1500 RPM yielding much smoother power. I actually think Sherco has the answer with the Servo power valve. Now back on topic I'm trying to get input if the 2015 GasGas powervalve redesign has seen an improvement or did they just do a preload adjuster. If they were in doing a redesign I would guess they easily could of improve this.