Graphed head & cylinder mods - a good read.

Keg

New member
So ive finished measuring up NSE.ONE's GG300 and put all the data through my software... glad i only have to do it once for each model bike cause it takes a bloody long time to measure and re-measure everything... There are a number of things that require you to get pretty creative in order to get a measurement and there is always the possiblity of human error so i try to measure everything several times to get a good average, but the results are usually pretty reliable... probably within 5% or so.

GG300.jpg


Theres no question that the bike does what its designed to do very well, power is very smooth and tractable, but its no mxer. Basically they have done this by using a small exhaust port, low compression, large squish and very little blowdown. Basically there is a lot more power to unlock out of the engine with some pretty easy porting changes... thats if you need more power!



The Black line is the stock engine, in this case 2.5mm squish, 11.9:1 comp, 1.3mm base gasket stack, piston level with port floors at bdc

The Red line is the cylinder dropped by 0.7mm to give a squish of 1.8mm, no further changes other than what occurs by dropping cylinder.... comp increases, exh duration drops, transfer duration drops

The Green line is the cylindner dropped by 1mm to give a squish of 1.5mm, no other changes.

The Blue line is dropping cylinder a bit but then doing some basic mods to the exhaust port to bring the top end power back... best of both worlds... better bottom without the loss on top. You can take this much further to get better top end if you want.


This engine has low exhaust TA and by dropping the cylinder to correct squish you reduce that further, making it fall flat up top... green line shows this. This is why its usually not advisable to use base gaskets to alter squish cause you can mess up port timing if you take it too far... with this engine though there is not enough blowdown TA and it could do with a larger exh port and lower transfers, particularly the boost port which opens 2.5 degrees before the others... so there is actually some beneift in droppping the cylinder on this bike, but its really only beneficial if you then raise the exhaust back up a bit to increase exh TA and blowdown TA.


Thread stolen from here ..... http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=82850
 
It looks like these "free" mods are a good bang for the buck. Swapping out base gaskets or shuffling what you have to get the cylinder .7-1.0mm lower is free, and if you have a flex dremel you can smooth and contour the transfer ports and clean up the casting flaws yourself.

Look at the difference between the black and green line... A 1mm base gasket swap alone will get you 4 horsepower at 6500 rpm? Damn 4 hp is a big difference on these bikes.

I will wait until my top end needs to be done, at which point I will attempt to do the above mods.
 
I'm a little confused...does the black line show a stock bike at 52 hp and the green line show less peak hp at 47?
 
Disregard the power figures John. They are based on ideal scenario regarding fuel/air etc. The graphs are a calculated representation of how port timing/shaping and compression/squish effect the power curve/delivery.

Whas has happened is an engine builder in Australia has measured up a 2010 EC300 Euro model and punched the figures into some fanastic software that crunches the numbers and graphs the results.
 
Why no reading of just leaving the cylinder as is with the thicker gasket stack and adjusting the squish just using a head mod? Perhaps that might give the best all around results?
 
Why no reading of just leaving the cylinder as is with the thicker gasket stack and adjusting the squish just using a head mod? Perhaps that might give the best all around results?

Exact same question I asked on the original thread :)
 
]
GG3002.jpg


BLACK line is stock engine

RED line is 1.6mm squish, 13.2:1 compression, done by machining head only
cause Jakobi asked for it

GREEN line is cylinder dropped by 0.7mm to give squish of 1.8mm, same as red line in first graph

BLUE line is same as blue line in first graph... cylinder lowered but then exhaust raised a bit


Doing the squish by machining the head shows a small gain everywhere without a loss of top end[/QUOTE]
 
]
GG3002.jpg


BLACK line is stock engine

RED line is 1.6mm squish, 13.2:1 compression, done by machining head only
cause Jakobi asked for it

GREEN line is cylinder dropped by 0.7mm to give squish of 1.8mm, same as red line in first graph

BLUE line is same as blue line in first graph... cylinder lowered but then exhaust raised a bit


Doing the squish by machining the head shows a small gain everywhere without a loss of top end
[/QUOTE]

Thank you Jakobi, looks good to me.
 
Yeah as expected an increase right across the rev range with no change to top end. Thats the route I went..
 
raising exhaust port

Id like to know how much youd have to do to the ex.port to get a gain along with the head mod . my piston sits a good bit above the port on bdc . Ive got my head at 1.6 . I'm sending my cylinder for a replate so I keep thinking I should do a little work to it first. Anyone done any of there own port mods?
Results????
Stoby
 
I think they just made the exhaust port the same shape as it was if it hadnt been lowered, iirc, it was about 1mm off the top of the port to make it the same size after the cylinder was lowered to when it was stock. To keep it open for the same number of degrees I believe.
 
when its off look at how the pv lies/ fools you. Just when you think its open look at it again its not as much a it could be due to the convex hump on it. Remove that and you pick up a nice boost.

Its hard to explain until you stare at it to see what i am talking about.
 
Yes. Its hard to explain until you see it in action right in front of your eye. it looks like it opens all the way. However when it is fully open it closes back 1mm. Like i said kinda hard to explain unless you look right at it and see. Its a WTF moment for sure.
 
Dude, Did you do this ? If so What did you do exactly and what did you gain?
Stoby
 
Yes. Its hard to explain until you see it in action right in front of your eye. it looks like it opens all the way. However when it is fully open it closes back 1mm. Like i said kinda hard to explain unless you look right at it and see. Its a WTF moment for sure.


pics might help (or even a drawing?) :-)
 
yes i did it and noticed a huge gain. its a convex valve make it concave i cant really go further than that. Thats as simple as it gets
 
My bike has been the test mule for this thread. 2010 EC300 EURO with 65 hours Racing/General riding. All terrains.
We ended up going with -
1.3 Base gasket stack
1.6 Squish machining the head and some machining of the dome.
Havnt got the final CC's of the head back from Dave yet.
No Port grinding, just light casting clean up.

Should give a slight punch all the way through.
I didnt want it to be balls out, as i ride alot of steep loose/slippery tracks and i dont want it to be spinning up everywhere.
This combination seemed like the best for my aplication after we crunched the numbers.

I get to go do some jetting runs on it on Friday and then a nice day of ST on Saturday.


Ill get back to you on how it goes.
 
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